WEBVTT

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Americans' data is being sold and resold commercially for $300

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billion plus a year and no one sees a dime.

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But I just told the AI chatbot like,

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hey man,

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get me a person or I'm gonna kill myself.

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I think it's so dramatic.

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I did not use AI to prepare for this and that wasn't deliberate.

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I've written two books on this topic.

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I just like reread my own books.

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People have different viewpoint and different sentiment and

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they're actually feeling very optimistic of the future

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because of artificial intelligence.

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One third

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of working age Americans.

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Men is no longer in the workforce.

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Hey,

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what's up guys?

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Will AI democratize opportunity

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or accelerate inequality beyond anything we've seen before?

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I'm Paris Rose from Jubilee Media,

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and this is Surrounded,

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where one brave soul faces a room full of disagreers.

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Today we're exploring how AI is reshaping the workforce,

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whether universal basic income is necessary

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in an AI driven economy,

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and what.

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Happens to human dignity when the market values productivity and profit

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above all else.

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I'm here with our featured guest,

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entrepreneur,

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bestselling author,

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and CEO

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Andrew Yang.

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I'm so happy to see you.

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How are you feeling today?

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I'm feeling great.

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Uh,

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it's awesome to be surrounded.

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Uh,

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I'm sure we're gonna have a wonderful discussion.

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All right,

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debaters,

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are you guys ready?

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Hi,

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I'm Andrew Yang,

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serial entrepreneur,

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co-founder of the Forward Party,

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and CEO of Noble Mobile.

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And today I'm surrounded by AI optimists.

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My first surrounded claim is AI will not democratize opportunity,

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it will accelerate inequality on a scale we have never seen before.

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If you'd like to be the first debater,

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please get to the chair in 321.

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Wow,

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very nice to meet you.

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Oh,

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it's nice to meet you as well.

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Well,

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thank you.

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My name is Christina.

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Um,

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I've been in the AI safety space for about 3 years now.

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Um,

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I got my master's in public policy from Carnegie Mellon.

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Fantastic.

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Where do you live?

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I live in Westwood.

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Cool.

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I can open with this is the way I see

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the situation

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is that you have.

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Capital,

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AI,

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data,

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and processing power and all four of these elements are now converging.

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In a multi-trillion dollar vortex that's going to hoover up

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tons and tons of value

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that's going to come from a lot of

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uh

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office parks,

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corporations,

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businesses,

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big and small.

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So the value is gonna head up,

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uh,

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and they're gonna be some winners for sure.

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Those winners are gonna be

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the

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shareholders and employees of the AI firms,

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the investors,

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folks who actually have enough capital to be in.

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Positions where they benefit from these efficiencies,

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but this number of people is going to be relatively small in the scheme of things

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compared to the folks that are going to be left wondering

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what happened to their call center job,

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what happened to their Uber

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job,

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etc.

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etc.

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I think it's a lot more complicated than that.

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I think there are two things that are happening simultaneously.

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I think that AI is democratizing

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um capability and opportunity for consumers.

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So for example,

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like,

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There are so many different things that we can do with AI now.

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Like you can start your own business.

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If you haven't programmed before,

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you can build an app,

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you can build a website,

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and I use AI as a tutor,

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as a therapist,

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and there's so many things that you can do with it.

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So it is democratizing opportunity.

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But on the other hand,

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um,

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I do think it is concentrating power

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very,

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very

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heavily and on an unprecedented level.

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I think those two things can happen simultaneously.

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Interesting.

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So you actually will concede on the power side,

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um,

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but you think the economic opportunity will actually be broadly

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distributed.

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So first I want to say that AI will

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of course create myriad new jobs and opportunities,

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um,

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and certain individuals are going to benefit.

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I just think that the individuals that benefit are going to be vastly outnumbered

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by the by the people

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that are on the outside.

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Uh,

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looking in,

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and the example I would use,

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um,

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would be a lot of the,

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uh,

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technological innovations of the past.

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I mean,

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like,

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if you look at something

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like e-commerce,

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where there was a point when we were all like,

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hey,

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we're all gonna sell

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our stuff,

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whatever it is,

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and I can't sew.

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But,

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you know,

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you'd like sell something.

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And then you fast forward

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and uh Amazon's a $3 trillion company,

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like trying to compete with them is is kind

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of silly because you have like a winner take all

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um uh dynamic that happened with e-commerce,

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and I think that the same is going to be true

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with AI that if I spun off,

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let's say I were to vibe code an app

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and then put it out on the App Store,

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there's nothing stopping me from doing that,

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and AI is gonna make that easier.

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But the odds of millions of people finding my app very,

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very low,

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they're going to be a couple of outlier winners where that does happen to them.

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But,

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but you're gonna have an explosion of apps that no one really sees or appreciates.

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Right?

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So I pause,

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we're gonna pause here.

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You've been voted out by the majority.

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Please return to your

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seat.

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Such a pleasure.

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Thank you.

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If you'd like to be the next debater,

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please get to the chair in 321.

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Oh hey there Andrew

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Drago

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holy crap like a Rocky,

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yeah,

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yeah,

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no,

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Ivan Drago

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love that character

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love that movie.

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Well,

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I,

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I,

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I appreciate it,

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you know,

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before I ask you your definition of inequality,

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I wanna look at how our country was founded by the small business spirit

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where we left

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the grips of bigger structures to carve out our own way,

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go after our.

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Own land

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and in the last 100 years the corporatization of America

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has

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flattened the distributions now we have the on the low end we have the earners

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and we have the corporations those who to do that so we have inequality today

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I think with AI

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we're pushing some of that lower end

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back creating a renaissance for small businesses

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because the output gap

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and the effort required to achieve an expert level output.

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Lets the small businesses compete with some of the bigger entities.

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I'm an entrepreneur.

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I can do something with a team of 5,

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get a team of 100.

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Tell me more about yourself and your work and what kind of work you do.

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So I have a spiritual growth app that,

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you know,

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facilitates it's direct to consumer play.

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What?

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Yeah,

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using AI

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way because I think we really need spiritual growth.

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I appreciate.

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I think that's,

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I don't know if we're allowed to do this,

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but what's it called?

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Holy habits.

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Holy habits.

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Yeah,

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yeah.

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So let's go.

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Do you have a spiritual background yourself?

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I'm a Catholic,

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so that that's the tradition I have.

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Yeah,

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man.

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So

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first,

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it seems like we agree on,

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uh,

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two things that are very important.

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So number one,

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the American economy is vastly unequal today.

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You know,

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the top.

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10% of Americans,

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uh,

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uh,

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control about 67% of the wealth and 90% of the stock market

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holdings.

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So you start with a very,

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very unequal,

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um,

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you know,

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playing field right now.

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So we agree on that.

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Number 2,

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I also love the spirit of small business.

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Love it.

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I came up as

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a serial entrepreneur.

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The

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owner of a

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private company,

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and I still look back incredibly

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fondly on that time because everything made sense.

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It's like you do the right thing for your business and it actually

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grows and give people jobs.

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Yeah,

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like you have 5 people.

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I will even agree with you that there are

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going to be myriad small businesses that wind up

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succeeding in part because of AI.

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I think though that the primary beneficiaries are going to be

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the holders of the data sets and the major models um that have now

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$1 trillion valuations

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have

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benefited from

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hundreds of billions of dollars

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in data infrastructure and that even as you're building holy habits,

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you probably have to license

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data

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from one of the major providers

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and then pay them.

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So,

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and I'm not gonna make the open source argument even though it.

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Can be made.

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Let's say I accept that anthropic open AI are gonna

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find they're gonna go farther ahead,

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fair enough,

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but all the other

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00:07:51.730 --> 00:07:54.040
Fortune 500 companies that aren't AI companies,

290
00:07:54.130 --> 00:07:56.570
they can be completely displaced by the up and coming

291
00:07:56.810 --> 00:08:00.140
middle tier as people realize that they can solve what they're doing

292
00:08:00.290 --> 00:08:01.560
at a fraction of the effort.

293
00:08:01.690 --> 00:08:01.760
Yeah,

294
00:08:01.890 --> 00:08:02.070
you know,

295
00:08:02.090 --> 00:08:03.230
I'm really enjoying this conversation,

296
00:08:03.370 --> 00:08:03.790
Jago.

297
00:08:03.890 --> 00:08:07.690
So on board with the fact that a lot of major Fortune 500 companies

298
00:08:07.970 --> 00:08:08.680
are going to,

299
00:08:08.850 --> 00:08:08.920
uh,

300
00:08:09.050 --> 00:08:09.960
get lighter weight.

301
00:08:10.090 --> 00:08:11.840
They're going to eliminate a lot of workers.

302
00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:14.190
It's gonna be very sad for a lot of people and that

303
00:08:14.190 --> 00:08:17.000
various upstart insurgents are going to be able to compete with them.

304
00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:17.700
I

305
00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:19.180
do believe though

306
00:08:19.440 --> 00:08:23.140
that the major beneficiaries of the AI revolution

307
00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.740
are going to be the folks that already have

308
00:08:25.940 --> 00:08:27.070
massive brands,

309
00:08:27.200 --> 00:08:27.960
rents,

310
00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:29.100
capital structures,

311
00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:29.910
and the rest of it.

312
00:08:29.960 --> 00:08:31.030
So if you were to take,

313
00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:31.200
uh,

314
00:08:31.320 --> 00:08:31.510
you know,

315
00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:31.710
as,

316
00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:32.590
as an example,

317
00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:33.490
Verizon.

318
00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:35.940
So Verizon has the spectrum,

319
00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:36.230
like,

320
00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:36.630
I don't,

321
00:08:36.909 --> 00:08:38.880
don't even say,

322
00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:39.309
don't.

323
00:08:41.659 --> 00:08:41.710
No,

324
00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:41.890
no,

325
00:08:41.980 --> 00:08:42.049
no,

326
00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:43.010
it's like an anti-plug,

327
00:08:43.059 --> 00:08:44.080
at least it's trying to be

328
00:08:44.330 --> 00:08:44.730
because they're,

329
00:08:44.780 --> 00:08:48.200
they're paying 11 billion a year in dividends,

330
00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:49.080
and

331
00:08:49.220 --> 00:08:49.760
they

332
00:08:49.900 --> 00:08:51.000
just laid off

333
00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:53.130
15,000 workers,

334
00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:53.300
uh,

335
00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.560
relatively recently and announced

336
00:08:55.820 --> 00:08:56.240
that

337
00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:57.260
according to them,

338
00:08:57.420 --> 00:09:00.050
AI can do customer service better than a human,

339
00:09:00.220 --> 00:09:03.070
which I think I think we all know what that's going to mean for Verizon

340
00:09:03.540 --> 00:09:04.060
employees.

341
00:09:04.230 --> 00:09:06.260
So my argument is that Verizon is going to

342
00:09:06.260 --> 00:09:09.170
be in a position to benefit from these AI efficiencies

343
00:09:09.390 --> 00:09:10.970
to a higher degree

344
00:09:11.230 --> 00:09:14.220
than like even like a successful upstart.

345
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:14.390
Well,

346
00:09:14.670 --> 00:09:16.480
certain provinces pause here.

347
00:09:16.710 --> 00:09:17.860
You've been voted out by the majority.

348
00:09:17.950 --> 00:09:18.340
Thank you so much.

349
00:09:18.430 --> 00:09:18.660
Drago,

350
00:09:18.710 --> 00:09:19.390
it's a real pleasure.

351
00:09:19.550 --> 00:09:20.410
That's really smart.

352
00:09:20.590 --> 00:09:21.420
Holy habits.

353
00:09:21.950 --> 00:09:22.970
Holy habits,

354
00:09:23.130 --> 00:09:24.690
we could all use them.

355
00:09:24.790 --> 00:09:24.940
Yeah,

356
00:09:25.070 --> 00:09:25.740
amen.

357
00:09:27.020 --> 00:09:29.110
321.

358
00:09:31.250 --> 00:09:31.680
Hey there.

359
00:09:31.810 --> 00:09:32.080
Hi,

360
00:09:32.250 --> 00:09:33.440
I'm Essie Magic.

361
00:09:33.570 --> 00:09:33.760
Hey,

362
00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:34.280
Essie,

363
00:09:34.370 --> 00:09:35.680
is your last name Magic?

364
00:09:35.810 --> 00:09:35.880
No,

365
00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:36.660
it's my nickname.

366
00:09:36.770 --> 00:09:36.880
Oh,

367
00:09:36.970 --> 00:09:37.960
it's still cool as heck.

368
00:09:38.570 --> 00:09:39.940
So I'm a small business owner.

369
00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:40.170
Oh,

370
00:09:40.250 --> 00:09:40.960
what kind of small business?

371
00:09:41.050 --> 00:09:41.120
Yeah,

372
00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:44.760
I have a jewelry brand that's an all empowering jewelry for women.

373
00:09:44.970 --> 00:09:45.530
What's it called?

374
00:09:45.650 --> 00:09:46.980
It's called Zam Jewelry,

375
00:09:47.460 --> 00:09:47.920
Z A M

376
00:09:48.160 --> 00:09:49.110
Z AM jewelry.

377
00:09:49.210 --> 00:09:51.910
So I'm gonna build on what the gentleman before said

378
00:09:51.910 --> 00:09:54.980
because there is actually data that shows that since,

379
00:09:55.050 --> 00:09:55.450
uh,

380
00:09:55.580 --> 00:09:57.880
Chat GBT was launched in 2022.

381
00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.080
We've seen an influx of business registrations,

382
00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:01.770
um,

383
00:10:01.810 --> 00:10:04.520
along with websites like uh Product Hunt as well.

384
00:10:04.540 --> 00:10:06.770
We've seen a lot more registrations,

385
00:10:06.980 --> 00:10:07.130
uh,

386
00:10:07.220 --> 00:10:07.490
or sorry,

387
00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:09.290
product launches on that site,

388
00:10:09.420 --> 00:10:09.530
uh,

389
00:10:09.700 --> 00:10:11.250
especially for solo entrepreneurs.

390
00:10:11.300 --> 00:10:11.590
So

391
00:10:11.740 --> 00:10:16.740
we are actually seeing data that shows that entrepreneurship is growing.

392
00:10:16.900 --> 00:10:20.920
It shows that more people have access from AI as opposed to

393
00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:21.980
not having

394
00:10:22.420 --> 00:10:22.890
access

395
00:10:23.060 --> 00:10:25.710
and whether it be things like education as Well,

396
00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.350
we have a lot more access to things we would have to pay for.

397
00:10:28.370 --> 00:10:28.820
If you

398
00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:30.070
wanted to get legal advice,

399
00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:31.040
you would have to

400
00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.140
spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer or,

401
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:34.630
you know,

402
00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:35.750
accounting advice,

403
00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:36.590
tax advice.

404
00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:38.330
You can now go on

405
00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:40.910
Cloud or chat GBT and get help.

406
00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:41.260
So

407
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:44.340
it's creating more access for people because

408
00:10:44.560 --> 00:10:46.860
of the financial cost that it's eliminated.

409
00:10:46.920 --> 00:10:47.070
Like,

410
00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:47.480
first,

411
00:10:47.650 --> 00:10:48.160
love it,

412
00:10:48.380 --> 00:10:49.360
love what

413
00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:50.380
you do

414
00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:51.630
and the fact that,

415
00:10:51.720 --> 00:10:52.030
I mean,

416
00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:52.510
I'm a small.

417
00:10:52.630 --> 00:10:53.300
Business owner

418
00:10:53.660 --> 00:10:54.180
myself,

419
00:10:54.460 --> 00:10:54.650
um,

420
00:10:54.740 --> 00:10:56.700
and agree with you that as

421
00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:59.560
the head of a small business you can save money

422
00:10:59.660 --> 00:11:00.760
on accounting,

423
00:11:01.180 --> 00:11:01.810
legal,

424
00:11:02.050 --> 00:11:02.810
marketing,

425
00:11:03.060 --> 00:11:03.340
um,

426
00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:06.100
human resources like a lot of that stuff's now subscription.

427
00:11:06.190 --> 00:11:09.840
The first thing I want to point out is that all of those things used to be

428
00:11:10.090 --> 00:11:13.800
something you would either hire a person for or a firm for and so

429
00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:15.060
you're not having to do that,

430
00:11:15.160 --> 00:11:15.980
which is good for you,

431
00:11:16.140 --> 00:11:18.840
but it's also a negative for

432
00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:19.710
the.

433
00:11:20.090 --> 00:11:20.280
You know,

434
00:11:20.490 --> 00:11:21.320
accounting firm you were,

435
00:11:21.370 --> 00:11:23.790
you would have hired in a past era or

436
00:11:24.010 --> 00:11:24.840
like the small bit,

437
00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:25.380
you know what I mean?

438
00:11:25.410 --> 00:11:26.280
So it's like zero sum.

439
00:11:26.370 --> 00:11:26.500
What,

440
00:11:26.570 --> 00:11:29.290
what's happening is you've extracted value and it's helping you,

441
00:11:29.410 --> 00:11:30.040
but it's gonna,

442
00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:30.520
you know,

443
00:11:30.650 --> 00:11:34.510
be less money for like the um lawyer you would have paid otherwise.

444
00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:35.630
The second thing

445
00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:36.510
is that

446
00:11:36.610 --> 00:11:39.150
as you try and grow,

447
00:11:39.370 --> 00:11:41.180
you're gonna be able to do it with fewer people.

448
00:11:41.410 --> 00:11:44.370
And I can say this from experience where my company

449
00:11:44.690 --> 00:11:46.830
uh took down a job posting for

450
00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:49.700
a junior engineer and a junior data analyst because

451
00:11:49.850 --> 00:11:52.200
I made them less necessary and less relevant.

452
00:11:52.260 --> 00:11:54.390
So it's going to be good for me

453
00:11:54.610 --> 00:11:56.830
in terms of growing the business,

454
00:11:57.010 --> 00:11:58.960
but it's going to be bad for the people that I

455
00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.950
otherwise would have had to hire who like otherwise would have had

456
00:12:03.410 --> 00:12:06.200
the ability to benefit from the opportunities that I'm creating.

457
00:12:06.290 --> 00:12:06.810
So what I,

458
00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:08.280
so what I'm suggesting,

459
00:12:08.490 --> 00:12:10.120
both of these things can be true where

460
00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:12.470
you can help a small business become competitive,

461
00:12:12.730 --> 00:12:15.590
but that's not necessarily going to mean like broader

462
00:12:16.160 --> 00:12:17.390
opportunity for

463
00:12:17.570 --> 00:12:18.760
like different groups of people.

464
00:12:18.850 --> 00:12:19.280
I'm gonna.

465
00:12:19.690 --> 00:12:21.860
Disagree on your first point because

466
00:12:22.040 --> 00:12:24.370
it was mainly the people who had high income

467
00:12:24.400 --> 00:12:26.470
that could afford those services in the first place.

468
00:12:26.640 --> 00:12:28.370
Lower income people could not afford

469
00:12:28.520 --> 00:12:30.560
to pay for a lawyer for tax help

470
00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:32.350
to get a certificate from.

471
00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:33.350
They couldn't afford it.

472
00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:36.100
So it's bridging the gap of the average Joe,

473
00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:37.240
the average Joe

474
00:12:37.430 --> 00:12:39.550
that now they're that wealth gap that we see

475
00:12:39.550 --> 00:12:42.260
is closing because they have access to these things

476
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:43.710
that they can use to grow their career,

477
00:12:43.880 --> 00:12:45.440
not just entrepreneurship too,

478
00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:47.350
because even if you have a job.

479
00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:49.420
You shouldn't be having just one stream of

480
00:12:49.420 --> 00:12:51.420
income if you're depending on just one company

481
00:12:52.020 --> 00:12:53.020
for your income,

482
00:12:53.190 --> 00:12:53.500
you know,

483
00:12:53.670 --> 00:12:54.900
they can lay you off like that.

484
00:12:55.040 --> 00:12:57.980
So that's not smart for multiple streams of income.

485
00:12:58.030 --> 00:12:59.090
It can even help you

486
00:12:59.310 --> 00:13:00.380
start side businesses,

487
00:13:00.550 --> 00:13:01.410
side hustles,

488
00:13:01.950 --> 00:13:03.260
invest as well.

489
00:13:03.390 --> 00:13:03.730
So I,

490
00:13:03.870 --> 00:13:06.100
I disagree on your first point there.

491
00:13:06.270 --> 00:13:06.500
All right,

492
00:13:06.630 --> 00:13:06.700
I,

493
00:13:06.830 --> 00:13:08.780
I just want to say on the data side,

494
00:13:08.910 --> 00:13:09.230
which you,

495
00:13:09.310 --> 00:13:10.420
you cited coming in,

496
00:13:10.550 --> 00:13:12.610
I too have seen that there's a surge

497
00:13:12.790 --> 00:13:13.370
of

498
00:13:13.550 --> 00:13:15.180
uh business in corporation.

499
00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:15.770
Um,

500
00:13:15.930 --> 00:13:19.010
happening right now and that I agree that AI may be a part of that.

501
00:13:19.100 --> 00:13:20.370
And so sometimes people ask me,

502
00:13:20.420 --> 00:13:20.690
it's like,

503
00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:21.040
hey,

504
00:13:21.420 --> 00:13:21.660
Andrew,

505
00:13:21.780 --> 00:13:22.610
like you love entrepreneurship,

506
00:13:22.660 --> 00:13:23.180
I do.

507
00:13:23.380 --> 00:13:25.770
So why could you be sad if this is happening?

508
00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:26.100
And I,

509
00:13:26.180 --> 00:13:27.430
I think there are two things.

510
00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:28.330
Number one,

511
00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:32.170
there are a lot of people who are losing their jobs at tech firms,

512
00:13:32.300 --> 00:13:32.450
uh,

513
00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:33.690
and other places,

514
00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:34.360
and you know,

515
00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:36.000
that one of the first things they do is they,

516
00:13:36.060 --> 00:13:36.910
they set up like,

517
00:13:37.180 --> 00:13:37.810
essentially,

518
00:13:38.020 --> 00:13:38.250
like,

519
00:13:38.420 --> 00:13:38.810
you know,

520
00:13:39.020 --> 00:13:39.290
um,

521
00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:39.920
Jane,

522
00:13:40.180 --> 00:13:40.290
uh,

523
00:13:40.420 --> 00:13:42.120
Jane Smith or John Doe Consulting.

524
00:13:42.180 --> 00:13:43.400
And so it shows up as like,

525
00:13:43.540 --> 00:13:43.650
uh,

526
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:43.890
hey,

527
00:13:43.910 --> 00:13:44.850
a business got started.

528
00:13:45.010 --> 00:13:45.290
To me,

529
00:13:45.330 --> 00:13:46.700
the key data point

530
00:13:46.930 --> 00:13:50.870
is what happens with that business after it gets formed and doesn't have to hire

531
00:13:51.130 --> 00:13:53.490
a full-time employee that's not the founder.

532
00:13:53.730 --> 00:13:56.720
And right now that second step is not being taken by

533
00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.200
the vast majority of the small businesses that are being started.

534
00:13:59.290 --> 00:14:00.910
So you're gonna have a lot of businesses that,

535
00:14:00.930 --> 00:14:01.660
to your point,

536
00:14:01.920 --> 00:14:03.910
might be able to generate a little bit of income

537
00:14:04.090 --> 00:14:04.960
for the founder.

538
00:14:05.050 --> 00:14:07.760
They might not be a full-time job even for the founder,

539
00:14:08.010 --> 00:14:10.240
and they're not necessarily going to get to a point where they have to hire someone.

540
00:14:10.330 --> 00:14:12.160
I think the statistics are gonna be like very,

541
00:14:12.270 --> 00:14:12.790
very,

542
00:14:13.050 --> 00:14:13.210
um,

543
00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:14.240
rosy in terms of business.

544
00:14:14.370 --> 00:14:15.400
Business formation,

545
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.660
but like not so great in terms of the way the value gets distributed.

546
00:14:18.920 --> 00:14:20.600
That sounds like you're doubting people

547
00:14:20.800 --> 00:14:21.870
voted up in the majority.

548
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:22.590
Thank you so much.

549
00:14:22.670 --> 00:14:23.950
I'm more of an optimist.

550
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:24.690
And,

551
00:14:24.710 --> 00:14:25.430
and by the way,

552
00:14:25.450 --> 00:14:27.270
I also want to say if you can take a seat

553
00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:28.190
for a second,

554
00:14:28.900 --> 00:14:31.480
small business owners have to be optimists by nature.

555
00:14:31.730 --> 00:14:34.140
Like it's the only way we can do anything.

556
00:14:34.160 --> 00:14:34.750
I'm an optimist.

557
00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:35.900
I don't know if you guys can sense it.

558
00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:36.590
To me,

559
00:14:36.870 --> 00:14:40.800
like the landscape and the numbers and then there's like our attitude,

560
00:14:40.880 --> 00:14:43.670
and we have to wake up every day thinking we can make it happen.

561
00:14:44.060 --> 00:14:44.170
Uh,

562
00:14:44.300 --> 00:14:44.560
you know,

563
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:45.830
like grow the business,

564
00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:46.860
shake up the world,

565
00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:49.040
and I think you can do that while also

566
00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:50.410
having a sense of,

567
00:14:50.540 --> 00:14:50.690
uh,

568
00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:52.320
like the backdrop in the numbers.

569
00:14:53.550 --> 00:14:54.100
Thank you.

570
00:14:54.270 --> 00:14:54.460
Thank you,

571
00:14:54.550 --> 00:14:54.730
Essie.

572
00:14:54.830 --> 00:14:55.530
I really appreciate it.

573
00:14:55.710 --> 00:14:56.060
All right,

574
00:14:56.150 --> 00:14:57.660
if you'd like to be the next debater,

575
00:14:57.870 --> 00:15:01.280
please get to the chair in 321.

576
00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:04.130
Oh hey there.

577
00:15:04.290 --> 00:15:04.360
Hi,

578
00:15:04.380 --> 00:15:04.850
I'm Val.

579
00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:05.530
Nice to meet you,

580
00:15:05.550 --> 00:15:06.000
Val.

581
00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:06.730
Andrew,

582
00:15:06.780 --> 00:15:07.240
how are you?

583
00:15:07.380 --> 00:15:07.970
I'm good.

584
00:15:08.180 --> 00:15:10.850
I'd like to go back to the original statement,

585
00:15:10.900 --> 00:15:14.880
and I do think that AI will completely democratize intellectual

586
00:15:15.010 --> 00:15:15.930
um ideas,

587
00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:16.440
so.

588
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.450
Previously,

589
00:15:17.710 --> 00:15:17.950
um,

590
00:15:18.110 --> 00:15:18.570
legal

591
00:15:19.350 --> 00:15:20.580
advice like health advice,

592
00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:21.450
as well as like

593
00:15:21.590 --> 00:15:24.780
having a tutor in your pocket wasn't previously possible.

594
00:15:25.210 --> 00:15:29.280
And now I think it's really easy for anyone who has access to like

595
00:15:29.410 --> 00:15:32.970
even the basic AI models and an internet connection

596
00:15:33.170 --> 00:15:34.430
to be able to

597
00:15:34.740 --> 00:15:35.840
use that new

598
00:15:36.050 --> 00:15:38.610
intellect and it's like going to help elevate everyone

599
00:15:38.730 --> 00:15:39.210
as a whole.

600
00:15:39.290 --> 00:15:39.410
Um,

601
00:15:39.610 --> 00:15:39.680
first,

602
00:15:39.770 --> 00:15:40.810
can you tell me a little bit about yourself,

603
00:15:40.890 --> 00:15:41.020
Al?

604
00:15:41.170 --> 00:15:44.790
I'm a beauty and makeup and fashion content creator.

605
00:15:44.890 --> 00:15:45.040
Wow,

606
00:15:45.210 --> 00:15:45.910
so cool.

607
00:15:46.290 --> 00:15:49.710
I'm with you that we all can get expert advice now via AI

608
00:15:49.850 --> 00:15:50.270
and

609
00:15:50.550 --> 00:15:51.840
Makes a lot of us an expert

610
00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:52.860
at various things.

611
00:15:52.950 --> 00:15:57.210
And I also think that's going to be helpful to certain entrepreneurs like yourself.

612
00:15:57.430 --> 00:15:58.580
Two things I want to express.

613
00:15:58.700 --> 00:16:02.280
Number one is that I'm old enough where I remember the time before Waze,

614
00:16:02.510 --> 00:16:04.670
and I had something called a sense of direction.

615
00:16:04.790 --> 00:16:05.740
I don't know if you guys

616
00:16:06.150 --> 00:16:06.850
know what this is.

617
00:16:07.030 --> 00:16:09.020
So you used to bust out a map and then be like,

618
00:16:09.110 --> 00:16:09.360
OK,

619
00:16:09.550 --> 00:16:09.900
like you,

620
00:16:09.950 --> 00:16:11.690
you go down this road and then this.

621
00:16:11.910 --> 00:16:14.100
Obviously none of that exists anymore because of Waze.

622
00:16:14.190 --> 00:16:15.690
What we've done is we've outsourced.

623
00:16:15.970 --> 00:16:17.150
That part of our thinking,

624
00:16:17.650 --> 00:16:17.810
um,

625
00:16:17.930 --> 00:16:18.830
to the apps.

626
00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:23.390
There's some early evidence that right now we're starting to outsource part of,

627
00:16:23.410 --> 00:16:23.610
uh,

628
00:16:23.730 --> 00:16:24.270
our

629
00:16:24.490 --> 00:16:25.910
structured thinking to AI.

630
00:16:26.010 --> 00:16:28.910
Like young people are having a harder time writing a first draft

631
00:16:29.010 --> 00:16:29.680
as an example.

632
00:16:29.770 --> 00:16:31.550
And I went to Brown University,

633
00:16:31.810 --> 00:16:32.000
uh,

634
00:16:32.130 --> 00:16:35.090
and apparently a majority of economic students recently

635
00:16:36.010 --> 00:16:37.470
their scores

636
00:16:37.690 --> 00:16:41.110
go from a 96% with AI to 48% without.

637
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:43.600
I feel like that can be also like used,

638
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:44.370
like,

639
00:16:44.550 --> 00:16:45.390
like the calculator,

640
00:16:45.470 --> 00:16:46.300
like back in the day,

641
00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:46.620
people were like,

642
00:16:46.640 --> 00:16:46.700
oh,

643
00:16:46.750 --> 00:16:47.340
with the calculator,

644
00:16:47.390 --> 00:16:48.620
we're not going to do math anymore.

645
00:16:48.710 --> 00:16:49.050
But

646
00:16:49.310 --> 00:16:49.620
clearly,

647
00:16:49.640 --> 00:16:50.930
like the calculator,

648
00:16:51.150 --> 00:16:52.490
the internet has actually

649
00:16:52.630 --> 00:16:54.060
helped us as a society as a whole,

650
00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:55.540
like it will help progress.

651
00:16:56.270 --> 00:16:59.410
So the thing I want to say here is that

652
00:16:59.910 --> 00:17:01.460
I think AI is going to lower barriers,

653
00:17:01.590 --> 00:17:04.300
and I think there are going to be some people that win as a result of that.

654
00:17:04.869 --> 00:17:05.060
Um

655
00:17:05.630 --> 00:17:06.619
simultaneously.

656
00:17:06.810 --> 00:17:07.190
So,

657
00:17:07.410 --> 00:17:07.560
uh,

658
00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:09.920
I think that there are going to be some side

659
00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:13.410
effects to the outsourcing of our cognitive processing that we're,

660
00:17:13.530 --> 00:17:13.720
we're,

661
00:17:13.810 --> 00:17:15.950
that's going to impact young people a bit worse than,

662
00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:16.920
than some others,

663
00:17:17.050 --> 00:17:17.280
uh,

664
00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:18.470
that there's,

665
00:17:18.740 --> 00:17:19.160
um,

666
00:17:19.530 --> 00:17:20.430
going to be

667
00:17:20.609 --> 00:17:22.760
like some highly visible winners that we can all point to,

668
00:17:22.849 --> 00:17:25.040
like probably you because you seem awesome and talented.

669
00:17:25.450 --> 00:17:25.599
Um,

670
00:17:25.770 --> 00:17:27.650
but then for every vow,

671
00:17:27.930 --> 00:17:28.160
um,

672
00:17:28.369 --> 00:17:30.110
there are going to be a host of people

673
00:17:30.290 --> 00:17:30.750
that

674
00:17:31.170 --> 00:17:31.860
aren't able to,

675
00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:32.170
to.

676
00:17:32.510 --> 00:17:34.620
Breakthrough just like statistically.

677
00:17:34.710 --> 00:17:36.620
Do you have an example of someone

678
00:17:36.750 --> 00:17:38.750
like a case who wouldn't be able to break through?

679
00:17:39.150 --> 00:17:39.210
Oh,

680
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:40.340
so one thing,

681
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:41.450
and it's just recent,

682
00:17:41.870 --> 00:17:46.210
is that I was reading a sub stack piece because I like sub stack and I'm there,

683
00:17:46.430 --> 00:17:48.570
and a sub stack author was complaining that

684
00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:52.490
they've essentially reached like zero sum in terms of paid subscribers,

685
00:17:52.710 --> 00:17:53.340
like people,

686
00:17:53.430 --> 00:17:55.750
and so then it's like if I subscribe to you,

687
00:17:55.790 --> 00:17:57.500
I'm just going to stop subscribing to that person.

688
00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:00.220
So there's something about that to our attention

689
00:18:00.520 --> 00:18:03.670
around different fields where you can't have like a limitless number of

690
00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:07.100
influencers because we only have a certain number of hours in the day

691
00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:08.620
and,

692
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.000
and some of that attention is going to get occupied by AI influencers increasingly.

693
00:18:14.080 --> 00:18:17.300
So if I look at someone like you and like they're going to be some

694
00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:21.140
Human influencers and brands that breakthrough because there always are.

695
00:18:21.320 --> 00:18:22.000
Generally speaking,

696
00:18:22.120 --> 00:18:24.970
there's going to be more and more of like a winner take all dynamic

697
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:26.540
in the human space,

698
00:18:26.760 --> 00:18:29.590
and AI is going to end up diminishing the human space.

699
00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:31.430
I actually disagree because nowadays,

700
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:31.930
like,

701
00:18:32.320 --> 00:18:33.310
everything is super niche,

702
00:18:33.370 --> 00:18:35.580
like now you can like go on book talk or

703
00:18:35.750 --> 00:18:38.270
go on makeup talk and everything is like very hyper individualized.

704
00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:40.230
There's even niches for like K Beauty and stuff,

705
00:18:40.360 --> 00:18:40.740
which

706
00:18:41.040 --> 00:18:41.310
I,

707
00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:42.270
I'm interested in.

708
00:18:42.870 --> 00:18:43.710
But back in the day,

709
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:45.740
there were only like 3 celebrities that you would know,

710
00:18:45.870 --> 00:18:47.300
like just the most famous actors.

711
00:18:47.350 --> 00:18:49.050
So I actually do think it will help

712
00:18:49.300 --> 00:18:49.850
really

713
00:18:50.110 --> 00:18:52.450
make everything more niche and like

714
00:18:52.710 --> 00:18:53.730
actually democrat

715
00:18:54.030 --> 00:18:55.300
uh democratize everything.

716
00:18:55.430 --> 00:18:55.620
OK,

717
00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:56.420
pause here.

718
00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:57.700
You've been voted out by the majority.

719
00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:57.940
Val,

720
00:18:58.020 --> 00:18:58.740
it's such a pleasure.

721
00:18:59.310 --> 00:19:00.660
If you'd like to be the next debater,

722
00:19:00.830 --> 00:19:04.380
please get to the chair in 321.

723
00:19:07.910 --> 00:19:08.380
Hey there.

724
00:19:08.550 --> 00:19:08.740
Hey,

725
00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:09.460
nice to meet you.

726
00:19:09.540 --> 00:19:09.940
What's your name?

727
00:19:10.050 --> 00:19:10.480
Nikil.

728
00:19:10.670 --> 00:19:11.020
Nikil,

729
00:19:11.310 --> 00:19:11.420
uh,

730
00:19:11.510 --> 00:19:11.900
what do you do?

731
00:19:12.030 --> 00:19:12.930
I'm a software engineer.

732
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:13.370
Where at

733
00:19:13.560 --> 00:19:13.980
Facebook.

734
00:19:14.190 --> 00:19:16.060
So I think going back to the original point,

735
00:19:16.110 --> 00:19:17.430
I think AI will

736
00:19:17.670 --> 00:19:18.670
democratize everyone,

737
00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:19.980
and it already has,

738
00:19:20.190 --> 00:19:20.820
and we've seen it.

739
00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:21.650
If everyone

740
00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:23.660
uses like anthropic models,

741
00:19:23.990 --> 00:19:24.740
everyone doesn't have to use that.

742
00:19:24.870 --> 00:19:26.600
Anthropic models or open AI models.

743
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:27.440
There's a lot of

744
00:19:27.580 --> 00:19:28.680
open source models.

745
00:19:28.820 --> 00:19:32.340
There's a lot of stuff you can self-host and you control your own data.

746
00:19:32.540 --> 00:19:33.720
You control what you do with them.

747
00:19:33.820 --> 00:19:35.570
We all have phones in our hands.

748
00:19:35.700 --> 00:19:37.410
They all can run local models on them.

749
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:38.010
Sure,

750
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:39.680
they might not be the most frontier,

751
00:19:39.860 --> 00:19:40.730
but they work.

752
00:19:40.900 --> 00:19:42.300
Everyone has access to them

753
00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:44.090
and everyone can use them.

754
00:19:44.260 --> 00:19:44.650
Personally,

755
00:19:44.820 --> 00:19:45.770
myself at my home,

756
00:19:45.830 --> 00:19:46.400
I have

757
00:19:46.580 --> 00:19:48.320
a few GPUs that I use to run

758
00:19:48.580 --> 00:19:51.610
a few local models for voice assistant for coding.

759
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:53.710
All kinds of tasks,

760
00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:54.220
etc.

761
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:54.610
Yes,

762
00:19:54.760 --> 00:19:55.820
there are open source

763
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.110
source of information that you don't have to pay the,

764
00:19:58.190 --> 00:19:58.370
the,

765
00:19:58.440 --> 00:19:58.600
the,

766
00:19:58.720 --> 00:19:59.560
the big guys.

767
00:19:59.800 --> 00:19:59.990
Yes,

768
00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:00.460
you can,

769
00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:01.020
um,

770
00:20:01.040 --> 00:20:03.990
create your own bot to solve some household task for you.

771
00:20:04.080 --> 00:20:04.350
So I'm,

772
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.170
I'm totally

773
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:06.090
with you on,

774
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:07.180
on those fronts.

775
00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.280
And I'm curious about what you're seeing in your field because from what I've seen,

776
00:20:10.320 --> 00:20:13.550
the wages for entry level coders have gone off a cliff

777
00:20:13.840 --> 00:20:17.770
and the placement rates for computer science graduates have also gone off a cliff.

778
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.300
Where if you look back at like,

779
00:20:19.320 --> 00:20:19.660
uh,

780
00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:20.200
You know,

781
00:20:20.290 --> 00:20:22.230
learned to code like 8 years ago.

782
00:20:22.250 --> 00:20:23.390
It was like fail-safe

783
00:20:23.750 --> 00:20:24.960
or foolproof

784
00:20:25.210 --> 00:20:26.110
career advice,

785
00:20:26.330 --> 00:20:28.040
and now those people are scrambling

786
00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:29.060
where their

787
00:20:29.590 --> 00:20:31.480
job placement rate has inverted,

788
00:20:31.610 --> 00:20:33.120
where if it used to be 88%,

789
00:20:33.170 --> 00:20:33.960
now it's 12%.

790
00:20:34.050 --> 00:20:34.880
So those folks,

791
00:20:35.050 --> 00:20:38.520
like that hard skill now is not commercially valued

792
00:20:39.010 --> 00:20:39.630
the way that it was.

793
00:20:39.650 --> 00:20:40.510
Is that accurate?

794
00:20:40.570 --> 00:20:40.900
I,

795
00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:41.440
sure,

796
00:20:41.530 --> 00:20:43.760
that's what the media says and that's what the public opinion wants.

797
00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:44.310
To think,

798
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.040
but I don't think that's accurate at all.

799
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:46.510
No.

800
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:46.750
Well,

801
00:20:46.840 --> 00:20:47.100
I mean,

802
00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.510
the stuff I just said is fairly like objective and documented,

803
00:20:50.760 --> 00:20:50.800
um,

804
00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:51.160
you know,

805
00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:52.310
a Stanford study,

806
00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:54.580
various like BLS statistics,

807
00:20:54.830 --> 00:20:56.220
or actually I talked to a

808
00:20:56.520 --> 00:20:58.310
career placement officer at a university and

809
00:20:58.310 --> 00:20:59.710
that's what they told me was happening.

810
00:20:59.780 --> 00:21:01.020
So I don't think they are

811
00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:01.770
fronting.

812
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:04.260
This is actually to me one of like the big

813
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.190
themes around AI is that

814
00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:07.730
for a lot of the stuff I'm saying.

815
00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:09.800
I totally wish I was wrong.

816
00:21:10.340 --> 00:21:11.610
I do not believe I am wrong.

817
00:21:11.670 --> 00:21:13.880
Like one of the things I do is I try and hunt,

818
00:21:14.100 --> 00:21:14.290
uh,

819
00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:15.600
facts and figures.

820
00:21:15.790 --> 00:21:17.550
And if there's a fact that is like,

821
00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:18.340
you know,

822
00:21:18.620 --> 00:21:19.600
contrary to my

823
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:20.460
point of view,

824
00:21:20.820 --> 00:21:22.330
I'm actually kind of glad.

825
00:21:24.120 --> 00:21:24.660
Because

826
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.670
I think it's gonna get gnarly and nasty and be terrible for a lot of people.

827
00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:29.110
Now,

828
00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.470
a talented engineer like you can 100% use open source models to

829
00:21:32.470 --> 00:21:34.620
like solve some of your problems and save yourself some time.

830
00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:38.650
The thing I will say that is categorically wrong and meta is like,

831
00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:40.150
not to put anything on this,

832
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:41.540
but meta is a culprit in this,

833
00:21:41.900 --> 00:21:44.120
is that we are not being paid for our data at all.

834
00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:47.260
Americans' data is being sold and resold commercially

835
00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:49.760
for $300 billion plus a year and.

836
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:51.030
One sees a dime.

837
00:21:51.110 --> 00:21:51.420
I agree.

838
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:51.890
And you know,

839
00:21:51.910 --> 00:21:54.130
one of the main beneficiaries of that

840
00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:55.250
is meta,

841
00:21:55.780 --> 00:21:57.620
because Meta is one of the main sellers of the data,

842
00:21:57.710 --> 00:21:59.010
the compilers of the data,

843
00:21:59.190 --> 00:22:01.670
they have more access to more of this data than just about anyone else.

844
00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:02.790
And one of the things I said,

845
00:22:03.110 --> 00:22:04.180
data is the new oil,

846
00:22:04.270 --> 00:22:07.650
and Meta is now one of the primary oil geysers.

847
00:22:07.750 --> 00:22:08.730
I believe that

848
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.260
your employer is actually one of the main beneficiaries of this dynamic,

849
00:22:12.350 --> 00:22:14.590
but if you were to just grab an American on the street

850
00:22:14.870 --> 00:22:16.140
in Seattle or in LA and be like,

851
00:22:16.210 --> 00:22:16.690
hey,

852
00:22:17.030 --> 00:22:18.340
have you been paid for your data?

853
00:22:18.670 --> 00:22:19.340
they will say no.

854
00:22:19.790 --> 00:22:21.420
I can definitely see where you're coming from,

855
00:22:21.590 --> 00:22:23.300
and I agree this is a concerning point,

856
00:22:23.430 --> 00:22:26.860
but I would like to know what your solution to this whole data people for their data,

857
00:22:27.070 --> 00:22:28.020
pay people for their data,

858
00:22:28.070 --> 00:22:29.030
pay people for their data.

859
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:30.310
I think that while

860
00:22:30.510 --> 00:22:31.170
that's a

861
00:22:31.350 --> 00:22:32.100
cool problem here,

862
00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:33.500
I'll suggest another solution.

863
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.510
I think that all these big AI companies,

864
00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:37.270
frontier models,

865
00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:40.300
they're all trying to create restrictions on

866
00:22:40.430 --> 00:22:41.830
people that are trying to train new models,

867
00:22:41.890 --> 00:22:42.110
right?

868
00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:44.380
They're trying to like open source models or

869
00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:46.780
trying to train models they're trying to create roadblocks,

870
00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:48.260
restrictions and all that

871
00:22:48.390 --> 00:22:49.420
so instead of

872
00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:51.140
focusing on like something like

873
00:22:51.280 --> 00:22:53.340
reduction the use of AI or

874
00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:54.670
slowing down the technology,

875
00:22:54.760 --> 00:22:57.710
why don't we focus on opening the technology and let more players come in.

876
00:22:58.070 --> 00:22:59.980
Therefore we can have more open source models.

877
00:23:00.050 --> 00:23:01.320
I truly think open source

878
00:23:01.490 --> 00:23:04.040
is the best solution that we have to democratize this.

879
00:23:04.150 --> 00:23:05.220
We've seen this in Linux.

880
00:23:05.390 --> 00:23:06.660
We've seen this with PostGress.

881
00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:08.220
We've seen this with databases and everything.

882
00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:08.580
I mean,

883
00:23:08.790 --> 00:23:11.460
if you and I are arguing about whether some of these

884
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:13.700
models that are proprietary right now should be open source,

885
00:23:13.830 --> 00:23:14.890
very different conversation.

886
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:16.780
I'm not saying the same thing.

887
00:23:16.870 --> 00:23:17.740
I'm not saying the same thing.

888
00:23:17.910 --> 00:23:18.810
What I'm saying is

889
00:23:19.010 --> 00:23:21.370
these models should be

890
00:23:21.620 --> 00:23:22.460
easier to train,

891
00:23:22.550 --> 00:23:24.050
and they should not have,

892
00:23:24.230 --> 00:23:24.470
uh,

893
00:23:24.630 --> 00:23:26.730
the restrictions that anthropic and open AI,

894
00:23:26.910 --> 00:23:27.620
these companies,

895
00:23:27.710 --> 00:23:28.290
frontier companies,

896
00:23:28.430 --> 00:23:29.140
we're gonna lobby

897
00:23:29.390 --> 00:23:29.540
here.

898
00:23:29.630 --> 00:23:30.800
You're out of time for this claim.

899
00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:31.340
Thank you.

900
00:23:31.670 --> 00:23:31.860
Thank you.

901
00:23:31.950 --> 00:23:32.420
Nice to meet you.

902
00:23:32.510 --> 00:23:33.020
Nice to meet you too.

903
00:23:33.120 --> 00:23:33.760
Appreciate it.

904
00:23:34.350 --> 00:23:37.540
My next surrounded claim is AI is going to eliminate

905
00:23:37.540 --> 00:23:40.220
millions of jobs faster than new ones can be created.

906
00:23:40.790 --> 00:23:42.380
If you would like to be the next debater,

907
00:23:42.550 --> 00:23:46.140
please get to that chair in 321.

908
00:23:49.270 --> 00:23:49.900
Oh hey there,

909
00:23:49.950 --> 00:23:50.740
my name's Theo.

910
00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:51.620
Hey Theo,

911
00:23:51.670 --> 00:23:52.020
how are you?

912
00:23:52.150 --> 00:23:52.890
Tell me about yourself.

913
00:23:52.990 --> 00:23:53.040
Yeah,

914
00:23:53.110 --> 00:23:55.660
I'm a co-founder and host of a media startup based out

915
00:23:55.660 --> 00:23:59.180
of San Francisco called MTS stands for Monitoring the Situation,

916
00:23:59.470 --> 00:24:00.970
and we help people understand what's going on

917
00:24:01.030 --> 00:24:03.260
with artificial general intelligence in the future.

918
00:24:03.390 --> 00:24:03.740
Oh wow,

919
00:24:03.830 --> 00:24:04.140
great.

920
00:24:04.310 --> 00:24:05.200
So first,

921
00:24:05.590 --> 00:24:05.860
uh,

922
00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:09.610
about 36% of Americans graduate from college.

923
00:24:09.750 --> 00:24:09.900
Uh,

924
00:24:10.150 --> 00:24:11.570
64% do not.

925
00:24:11.750 --> 00:24:13.820
If you look at the American workforce,

926
00:24:13.990 --> 00:24:16.010
the most common job categories

927
00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:16.920
are.

928
00:24:17.170 --> 00:24:18.550
Clerical and administrative,

929
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:18.830
uh,

930
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:19.470
retail,

931
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:20.980
food service and food prep,

932
00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:22.470
truck driving and transportation,

933
00:24:22.530 --> 00:24:24.950
which includes Uber drivers and manufacturing.

934
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:27.940
Each of those job categories is going to contract

935
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:29.870
in part because of AI and automation.

936
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:30.650
This is just my opinion.

937
00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.070
I'm just,

938
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:31.230
uh,

939
00:24:31.360 --> 00:24:31.980
throwing this out,

940
00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:34.110
but a couple of numbers to,

941
00:24:34.280 --> 00:24:34.390
uh,

942
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:35.620
scaffold the convo.

943
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.590
There are 2.9 million Americans who work in customer service call centers,

944
00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:39.830
uh,

945
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:40.530
right now,

946
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.390
and I'm an investor in.

947
00:24:42.770 --> 00:24:43.020
Uh,

948
00:24:43.250 --> 00:24:44.920
an AI call center,

949
00:24:45.290 --> 00:24:45.750
um,

950
00:24:46.010 --> 00:24:46.200
uh,

951
00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:47.040
solution

952
00:24:47.490 --> 00:24:48.190
that is,

953
00:24:48.260 --> 00:24:49.110
in my view,

954
00:24:49.450 --> 00:24:50.230
going to

955
00:24:50.530 --> 00:24:51.840
reduce that number sharply.

956
00:24:51.930 --> 00:24:52.040
Not,

957
00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:53.200
not the company I'm invested in,

958
00:24:53.290 --> 00:24:55.000
but like the category generally.

959
00:24:55.130 --> 00:24:56.270
Customers now

960
00:24:56.450 --> 00:24:57.240
are finding.

961
00:24:57.610 --> 00:24:57.880
Um,

962
00:24:58.090 --> 00:25:01.320
AI bots actually to be fine in terms of the experience.

963
00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:03.640
I don't know if people who are calling in now.

964
00:25:03.710 --> 00:25:04.460
It used to be like,

965
00:25:04.690 --> 00:25:05.270
like operator,

966
00:25:05.290 --> 00:25:05.680
operator,

967
00:25:05.820 --> 00:25:06.000
person,

968
00:25:06.170 --> 00:25:06.360
person,

969
00:25:06.490 --> 00:25:06.760
person,

970
00:25:06.890 --> 00:25:08.730
but like now the bot can address

971
00:25:09.050 --> 00:25:12.370
um 60% of your issues or so and then you don't have to deal with a,

972
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:12.520
a,

973
00:25:12.610 --> 00:25:13.110
a person.

974
00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:13.670
Uh,

975
00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:17.290
2 million Americans drive an Uber for other part-time or full-time,

976
00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:17.740
uh,

977
00:25:17.910 --> 00:25:18.210
jobs,

978
00:25:18.230 --> 00:25:19.950
and some of you here in LA have taken away.

979
00:25:20.750 --> 00:25:23.660
2.5 million Americans work in the insurance industry,

980
00:25:23.790 --> 00:25:27.420
and the insurance industry is largely about passing information back and forth

981
00:25:28.390 --> 00:25:28.980
around systems.

982
00:25:29.070 --> 00:25:30.970
You can imagine AI doing a number on that.

983
00:25:31.230 --> 00:25:33.060
70 million Americans work at,

984
00:25:33.330 --> 00:25:33.490
uh,

985
00:25:33.630 --> 00:25:34.770
white collar jobs.

986
00:25:35.030 --> 00:25:35.180
Um,

987
00:25:35.310 --> 00:25:36.780
and so I think AI is going to,

988
00:25:36.990 --> 00:25:38.050
to crush this number.

989
00:25:38.190 --> 00:25:38.260
Well,

990
00:25:38.350 --> 00:25:40.820
just looking at the past 200 years or so of automation,

991
00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:41.090
you know,

992
00:25:41.110 --> 00:25:42.900
this claim has been made over and over again.

993
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:46.670
And it doesn't stand because automating jobs is really hard.

994
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:47.030
You know,

995
00:25:47.120 --> 00:25:48.310
jobs are bundles of tasks,

996
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:48.870
right?

997
00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:50.510
And in order to automate a job,

998
00:25:50.560 --> 00:25:52.940
you have to do every single task the human does

999
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.510
on some parade of uh curve of better and cheaper than the human.

1000
00:25:57.040 --> 00:25:57.760
Like every single one.

1001
00:25:57.840 --> 00:26:00.110
If there's one task and a job remaining for humans to do,

1002
00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:01.400
humans are still employable.

1003
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:02.230
All right,

1004
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:02.740
so,

1005
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:03.190
um,

1006
00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:06.150
historical referent number 1 is going to

1007
00:26:06.150 --> 00:26:08.820
be what happened to the manufacturing workers

1008
00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:10.210
in the Midwest and the South,

1009
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:10.550
uh,

1010
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.830
when robot arms came into the factory.

1011
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:14.740
So the number of,

1012
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:15.110
uh,

1013
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.040
workers went down by about 4 million

1014
00:26:17.360 --> 00:26:18.740
and blew to smithereens,

1015
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.670
the regional economies of those towns in Ohio,

1016
00:26:21.810 --> 00:26:22.220
Michigan,

1017
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:22.990
Pennsylvania,

1018
00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:23.830
Wisconsin.

1019
00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:24.430
Uh,

1020
00:26:24.570 --> 00:26:25.360
North Carolina and,

1021
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:25.510
uh,

1022
00:26:25.600 --> 00:26:25.740
uh,

1023
00:26:25.800 --> 00:26:26.660
other places,

1024
00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:27.260
the

1025
00:26:27.470 --> 00:26:29.090
fallacy with what you just said

1026
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:29.980
is that

1027
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:35.120
often in corporations there are 100 people in a department doing a job,

1028
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.330
and if you can reduce

1029
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:39.300
60% of the tasks,

1030
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:40.140
they don't,

1031
00:26:40.280 --> 00:26:43.950
what happens is you fire 60 of the 100 and then the remaining 40,

1032
00:26:43.970 --> 00:26:44.190
you say,

1033
00:26:44.250 --> 00:26:44.660
hey guys,

1034
00:26:44.760 --> 00:26:46.030
like your job's just changed

1035
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:47.780
where you're now doing the thing

1036
00:26:48.040 --> 00:26:48.270
that,

1037
00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:48.550
uh,

1038
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:49.030
you know.

1039
00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:49.990
Only humans can do,

1040
00:26:50.090 --> 00:26:52.360
but then you just systematically reduce that number.

1041
00:26:52.690 --> 00:26:56.470
And that's what's happening in organizations big and small around the country.

1042
00:26:56.810 --> 00:26:57.080
Um,

1043
00:26:57.290 --> 00:26:57.360
well,

1044
00:26:57.450 --> 00:26:59.050
going back to the manufacturing point,

1045
00:26:59.170 --> 00:26:59.510
like,

1046
00:26:59.690 --> 00:27:03.200
it is true that automation can locally displace a lot of workers,

1047
00:27:03.410 --> 00:27:06.910
but the other thing that you see is like huge job growth in other industries.

1048
00:27:07.130 --> 00:27:07.800
Like for example,

1049
00:27:08.050 --> 00:27:08.790
automating

1050
00:27:09.050 --> 00:27:09.880
subsistence farming,

1051
00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:11.250
which almost every human

1052
00:27:11.410 --> 00:27:13.970
for all of history until the industrial revolution used to do.

1053
00:27:14.270 --> 00:27:16.160
Has created a tremendous amount of new industries like

1054
00:27:16.300 --> 00:27:19.680
this whole thing of like Jubilee videos would just not exist if we didn't have like

1055
00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:20.280
a

1056
00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:22.500
huge amount of the tasks that we previously did

1057
00:27:22.660 --> 00:27:23.160
automated.

1058
00:27:23.260 --> 00:27:24.540
There's huge job growth in other industries.

1059
00:27:24.620 --> 00:27:25.370
People move to cities,

1060
00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:25.810
for example.

1061
00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:27.240
So concession that

1062
00:27:27.460 --> 00:27:30.370
only 1% of Americans now working in agriculture and

1063
00:27:30.370 --> 00:27:32.300
that number used to be 40 times higher,

1064
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:33.600
and we can still grow food.

1065
00:27:33.740 --> 00:27:34.870
So that's a fact.

1066
00:27:35.060 --> 00:27:35.770
The thing that I,

1067
00:27:35.860 --> 00:27:39.800
I'm going to suggest is that AI is different than anything that has gone before.

1068
00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:42.190
We've never had thinking machines that can.

1069
00:27:42.780 --> 00:27:44.760
Solve cognitive problems as quickly

1070
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:46.140
as

1071
00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:48.190
it can and faster than any human.

1072
00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:48.810
Um,

1073
00:27:49.010 --> 00:27:50.600
can do PhD level work,

1074
00:27:50.850 --> 00:27:50.900
uh,

1075
00:27:51.050 --> 00:27:52.590
can do billable lawyer work

1076
00:27:52.890 --> 00:27:53.270
in

1077
00:27:53.410 --> 00:27:54.280
seconds or minutes,

1078
00:27:54.410 --> 00:27:55.750
and this is going to affect

1079
00:27:55.970 --> 00:27:57.060
more industries

1080
00:27:57.290 --> 00:27:58.220
more quickly

1081
00:27:58.330 --> 00:27:59.990
than anything we've ever seen before,

1082
00:28:00.290 --> 00:28:01.590
and people are not

1083
00:28:01.690 --> 00:28:04.870
infinitely adjustable as we've seen when there's been a past

1084
00:28:05.050 --> 00:28:05.710
transition.

1085
00:28:05.810 --> 00:28:07.840
Even if you were to rewind to the industrial revolution,

1086
00:28:07.930 --> 00:28:09.800
which people often cite in this conversation,

1087
00:28:09.890 --> 00:28:12.390
which I'm gonna suggest is a bad fact pattern because it's,

1088
00:28:12.610 --> 00:28:12.730
you know,

1089
00:28:12.810 --> 00:28:13.760
200 years ago and,

1090
00:28:13.850 --> 00:28:14.430
and,

1091
00:28:14.450 --> 00:28:14.880
uh,

1092
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:15.760
a different situation,

1093
00:28:15.930 --> 00:28:17.450
even in that situation.

1094
00:28:18.010 --> 00:28:20.790
There were mass riots that killed dozens of people and

1095
00:28:20.790 --> 00:28:23.150
caused the equivalent of $2 billion worth of damage,

1096
00:28:23.290 --> 00:28:25.190
which is why we had something called Labor Day

1097
00:28:25.360 --> 00:28:28.620
that got inaugurated in 1894 in response to the violence.

1098
00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:31.490
And today's economy is much more complex

1099
00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:33.430
with many more people and larger,

1100
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.430
and you have many more educated people who are not going to take getting

1101
00:28:37.610 --> 00:28:39.790
kicked to the curb and pushed down a class

1102
00:28:39.890 --> 00:28:40.320
gently,

1103
00:28:40.450 --> 00:28:41.360
nor will the truckers,

1104
00:28:41.450 --> 00:28:42.750
nor will a lot of other people.

1105
00:28:42.860 --> 00:28:44.760
Even if you were to actually inspect history,

1106
00:28:44.890 --> 00:28:46.880
you would expect very bad things to happen.

1107
00:28:47.280 --> 00:28:47.510
Um,

1108
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:49.100
during this era of displacement.

1109
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:50.380
This happens every.

1110
00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:52.070
You've been voted out by the majority.

1111
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:52.890
Thank you so much.

1112
00:28:52.910 --> 00:28:53.380
Thank you so much.

1113
00:28:53.490 --> 00:28:53.750
Of course,

1114
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:54.550
great seeing you.

1115
00:28:54.930 --> 00:28:55.040
Oh,

1116
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:55.350
thank you,

1117
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.630
brother.

1118
00:28:55.780 --> 00:28:56.590
Appreciate it.

1119
00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:59.160
321.

1120
00:29:01.070 --> 00:29:01.410
Thank you.

1121
00:29:01.550 --> 00:29:01.890
Hello,

1122
00:29:02.140 --> 00:29:02.820
I'm Sophia Du.

1123
00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:04.610
It's such a pleasure to meet you.

1124
00:29:04.860 --> 00:29:05.210
Sophia.

1125
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:06.730
I'm so excited to.

1126
00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:11.010
I'm a media tech host on also a show MTS similar to Theo.

1127
00:29:11.100 --> 00:29:12.320
So we are co-hosts together

1128
00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:13.450
and help people

1129
00:29:13.610 --> 00:29:14.250
understand AI.

1130
00:29:14.370 --> 00:29:16.090
I was like MTS this seems so like,

1131
00:29:16.140 --> 00:29:16.460
I think,

1132
00:29:16.600 --> 00:29:16.780
uh,

1133
00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:17.370
you know,

1134
00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:18.610
I just heard this a minute ago.

1135
00:29:18.780 --> 00:29:19.380
Congratulations.

1136
00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:20.810
You guys have like a good team.

1137
00:29:21.020 --> 00:29:21.290
Thank you.

1138
00:29:21.380 --> 00:29:21.490
No,

1139
00:29:21.580 --> 00:29:23.610
it's a really fun team and I'm really excited.

1140
00:29:23.750 --> 00:29:24.470
To talk to you

1141
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.290
about AI because I am an optimist because

1142
00:29:27.410 --> 00:29:30.710
of all of your fears that you say I definitely agree with a lot of them.

1143
00:29:30.730 --> 00:29:32.190
There are certain things that we should do

1144
00:29:32.290 --> 00:29:34.750
to mitigate all the harms that AI will cause

1145
00:29:34.890 --> 00:29:35.870
and at the same time

1146
00:29:35.970 --> 00:29:37.070
being an optimist

1147
00:29:37.170 --> 00:29:39.960
and understanding what are the positive benefits that come

1148
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.550
out of AI is how we transform through this

1149
00:29:42.690 --> 00:29:43.990
difficult period of time.

1150
00:29:44.010 --> 00:29:44.510
And so

1151
00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:46.320
what I wanna do is encourage more people to.

1152
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:50.710
Understand the benefits that happen and for specifically with the job loss claim,

1153
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.560
most people think,

1154
00:29:51.610 --> 00:29:51.870
OK,

1155
00:29:52.010 --> 00:29:55.470
one day it's just robots are gonna come in and all the jobs are going to leave,

1156
00:29:55.600 --> 00:29:58.970
but really what actually ends up happening is it's a slow transition where

1157
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.860
AI gets introduced and then the jobs transform and re-augment and specifically

1158
00:30:03.860 --> 00:30:06.940
they re-augment in ways where the human has to do more human

1159
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:08.950
type of work like radiology.

1160
00:30:09.370 --> 00:30:11.550
AA got introduced and everyone thought that would ban

1161
00:30:11.650 --> 00:30:14.650
and get rid of all the radiologists and there's still radiology.

1162
00:30:14.690 --> 00:30:15.880
There's more demand for radiology,

1163
00:30:15.930 --> 00:30:17.790
but the job of a radiologist now

1164
00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:18.880
is way more human.

1165
00:30:18.970 --> 00:30:20.770
They care way more about patient care

1166
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:22.630
and things that they could uniquely do

1167
00:30:22.770 --> 00:30:24.960
and all that brunt work and that task that they didn't want,

1168
00:30:25.050 --> 00:30:25.830
didn't want to do

1169
00:30:25.930 --> 00:30:28.130
is now getting automated away to AI.

1170
00:30:28.250 --> 00:30:29.790
But I don't think this is necessarily

1171
00:30:29.970 --> 00:30:30.560
super negative,

1172
00:30:30.650 --> 00:30:33.120
and I agree that we should reduce the harms as much.

1173
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.620
As we possibly can with policy with decisions.

1174
00:30:35.710 --> 00:30:36.740
I study a lot of what that,

1175
00:30:36.790 --> 00:30:38.070
what you do and what you believe in,

1176
00:30:38.110 --> 00:30:41.560
and I align with so much of it and I love your policy work

1177
00:30:41.670 --> 00:30:43.170
and I want to see your policy work

1178
00:30:43.370 --> 00:30:46.590
be a highlight of this next decade that we get into.

1179
00:30:46.710 --> 00:30:46.740
Oh,

1180
00:30:46.870 --> 00:30:47.100
thank you.

1181
00:30:47.190 --> 00:30:48.060
That's just so kind.

1182
00:30:48.150 --> 00:30:48.280
I,

1183
00:30:48.350 --> 00:30:49.220
I really appreciate it.

1184
00:30:49.310 --> 00:30:49.730
All right,

1185
00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:54.290
so what you're describing with a radiologist is called uh Gvon's paradox,

1186
00:30:54.430 --> 00:30:54.580
um,

1187
00:30:54.710 --> 00:30:57.050
which is if I technologically,

1188
00:30:57.390 --> 00:30:57.640
um,

1189
00:30:57.790 --> 00:30:59.330
make something inexpensive

1190
00:30:59.550 --> 00:31:00.170
or even

1191
00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:00.740
replace it,

1192
00:31:00.830 --> 00:31:02.060
like people want more of it.

1193
00:31:02.410 --> 00:31:02.760
Um,

1194
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:03.390
and

1195
00:31:03.610 --> 00:31:04.590
that is true

1196
00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:06.000
in certain situations.

1197
00:31:06.170 --> 00:31:08.240
It is one thing I want to return to,

1198
00:31:08.410 --> 00:31:08.600
um,

1199
00:31:08.850 --> 00:31:09.750
you talked about,

1200
00:31:09.850 --> 00:31:10.080
look,

1201
00:31:10.270 --> 00:31:12.670
job replacement as a transitional period actually

1202
00:31:12.810 --> 00:31:14.280
will take a little bit of time,

1203
00:31:14.690 --> 00:31:15.120
and,

1204
00:31:15.330 --> 00:31:15.640
um,

1205
00:31:15.770 --> 00:31:15.960
that,

1206
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:17.430
that's something I think

1207
00:31:17.610 --> 00:31:20.050
is changing even as we're having this conversation.

1208
00:31:20.170 --> 00:31:21.750
So if you look at AI models

1209
00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:24.070
12 months ago or 24 months ago,

1210
00:31:24.370 --> 00:31:24.870
they're

1211
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:26.700
completely different today.

1212
00:31:26.930 --> 00:31:29.440
And if you fast forward another 12 or 24 months,

1213
00:31:29.530 --> 00:31:30.720
they'll be different again.

1214
00:31:31.100 --> 00:31:33.440
I have a joke where I'm now 50 years old,

1215
00:31:33.580 --> 00:31:35.330
which means if I don't get dumber in a given month,

1216
00:31:35.380 --> 00:31:36.150
it was a good month.

1217
00:31:36.780 --> 00:31:37.210
Meanwhile,

1218
00:31:37.260 --> 00:31:39.450
the models will get twice as smart that month.

1219
00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:42.290
And so saying that I'm somehow going to keep up with them,

1220
00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:43.150
if I just,

1221
00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:43.450
uh,

1222
00:31:43.510 --> 00:31:43.890
you know,

1223
00:31:44.150 --> 00:31:44.330
uh,

1224
00:31:44.500 --> 00:31:46.080
do this program or

1225
00:31:46.340 --> 00:31:48.010
um get this certificate,

1226
00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:50.560
like it is not going to work for

1227
00:31:50.820 --> 00:31:52.130
like a whole legion of people.

1228
00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:54.080
And I think this transition is going to be much,

1229
00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:54.770
much faster,

1230
00:31:54.860 --> 00:31:55.480
unfortunately,

1231
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.490
than a lot of people wish.

1232
00:31:56.620 --> 00:31:57.480
And as one

1233
00:31:57.760 --> 00:31:58.670
piece of evidence,

1234
00:31:58.980 --> 00:31:59.090
a

1235
00:31:59.310 --> 00:32:00.380
A company called Block

1236
00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:06.340
um set a new record for percentage of workers they'd laid off um in S&P 500 history

1237
00:32:06.690 --> 00:32:09.630
a number of months ago where they fired about 40% of their,

1238
00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:10.210
their staff.

1239
00:32:10.340 --> 00:32:10.880
It was

1240
00:32:11.020 --> 00:32:13.010
4000 out of 10,000,

1241
00:32:13.100 --> 00:32:13.690
and they just said,

1242
00:32:13.780 --> 00:32:14.130
look,

1243
00:32:14.500 --> 00:32:17.480
AI intelligence tools are gonna make it so that this is

1244
00:32:17.660 --> 00:32:19.500
something that we're gonna have to do.

1245
00:32:19.870 --> 00:32:20.090
Um,

1246
00:32:20.340 --> 00:32:20.870
and,

1247
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:21.120
uh,

1248
00:32:21.140 --> 00:32:23.170
that's happening now in real time.

1249
00:32:23.300 --> 00:32:27.450
Oracle laid off 30,000 workers and said we're doing it to invest in AI.

1250
00:32:28.030 --> 00:32:28.220
Um,

1251
00:32:28.430 --> 00:32:28.850
Meta,

1252
00:32:28.950 --> 00:32:29.100
which,

1253
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:29.250
uh,

1254
00:32:29.470 --> 00:32:29.620
you know,

1255
00:32:29.670 --> 00:32:30.420
Nikil worked for,

1256
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.500
said 8000,

1257
00:32:31.570 --> 00:32:32.650
also cited AI,

1258
00:32:32.670 --> 00:32:34.370
and I think this stuff is speeding up

1259
00:32:34.620 --> 00:32:35.780
and going faster.

1260
00:32:36.010 --> 00:32:38.450
So this is not like a multi-year transition.

1261
00:32:38.590 --> 00:32:39.190
This is like a,

1262
00:32:39.230 --> 00:32:39.660
hey,

1263
00:32:39.950 --> 00:32:40.530
sorry,

1264
00:32:40.860 --> 00:32:40.930
uh,

1265
00:32:41.150 --> 00:32:43.060
like we don't need you anymore type of situation.

1266
00:32:43.270 --> 00:32:44.540
So you brought up Gvon's paradox,

1267
00:32:44.560 --> 00:32:46.020
and that's a great one because that's a big thing

1268
00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:49.230
that economics say and specifically with Gvon's paradox as AI.

1269
00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:53.130
Productivity increases productivity there also increases more demand and you

1270
00:32:53.130 --> 00:32:54.850
brought up the speed and I'm glad you brought up

1271
00:32:54.850 --> 00:32:58.010
the speed because this is a different technology and different

1272
00:32:58.010 --> 00:33:00.610
from other types of technology that got introduced in the past

1273
00:33:00.740 --> 00:33:04.010
but you're also seeing a rise in demand for new types of things and one

1274
00:33:04.010 --> 00:33:05.650
of the biggest areas where we're seeing rise

1275
00:33:05.650 --> 00:33:07.800
in demand are things that are uniquely human

1276
00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:10.730
and that AI cannot replace things like taste.

1277
00:33:10.870 --> 00:33:11.620
Like judgment,

1278
00:33:11.790 --> 00:33:11.900
uh,

1279
00:33:12.070 --> 00:33:13.020
things that

1280
00:33:13.170 --> 00:33:14.500
the AI can't do in intelligence,

1281
00:33:14.590 --> 00:33:15.620
there is more demand for it,

1282
00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:17.290
creating more scarcity

1283
00:33:17.390 --> 00:33:17.710
for it,

1284
00:33:17.750 --> 00:33:19.970
and then creating new types of markets that are going

1285
00:33:19.990 --> 00:33:21.940
to want to incentivize that type of stuff as well,

1286
00:33:22.150 --> 00:33:23.660
creating new jobs in those fields.

1287
00:33:23.790 --> 00:33:24.260
All right,

1288
00:33:24.470 --> 00:33:24.810
like,

1289
00:33:24.830 --> 00:33:26.370
I'm with you on new jobs.

1290
00:33:26.510 --> 00:33:27.730
I'm with you on,

1291
00:33:28.070 --> 00:33:28.220
uh,

1292
00:33:28.310 --> 00:33:29.860
even taste and judgment-ish.

1293
00:33:30.030 --> 00:33:33.100
Something like graphic design used to be considered a creative task,

1294
00:33:33.150 --> 00:33:35.300
and now that's getting pounded out by AI.

1295
00:33:35.750 --> 00:33:35.940
Um,

1296
00:33:36.070 --> 00:33:36.770
video making,

1297
00:33:37.070 --> 00:33:37.140
um,

1298
00:33:37.270 --> 00:33:37.630
no offense,

1299
00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:38.250
Jubilee,

1300
00:33:38.430 --> 00:33:40.980
used to be considered a highly creative human task,

1301
00:33:41.070 --> 00:33:41.570
and that's,

1302
00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:41.780
uh,

1303
00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:42.780
getting mulched by,

1304
00:33:42.870 --> 00:33:43.630
by AI,

1305
00:33:43.990 --> 00:33:44.220
um,

1306
00:33:44.470 --> 00:33:47.780
and so a lot of high level cognitive and creative work,

1307
00:33:48.110 --> 00:33:48.860
musician,

1308
00:33:49.270 --> 00:33:49.420
um,

1309
00:33:49.550 --> 00:33:49.740
you know,

1310
00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:52.060
it can get taken up by AI.

1311
00:33:52.230 --> 00:33:53.130
So you have

1312
00:33:53.310 --> 00:33:54.910
like increasing need for

1313
00:33:55.070 --> 00:33:56.700
human relationships and judgment,

1314
00:33:56.790 --> 00:33:58.330
but it's only being enjoyed

1315
00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.560
by folks who can

1316
00:33:59.800 --> 00:34:00.940
afford to pay a premium.

1317
00:34:01.070 --> 00:34:02.890
So what's happening is that you have,

1318
00:34:03.270 --> 00:34:04.310
you have something called a K-shaped.

1319
00:34:04.630 --> 00:34:05.040
Economy

1320
00:34:05.330 --> 00:34:06.930
where the top 20%

1321
00:34:07.610 --> 00:34:09.600
are capital holders and benefiting from a lot of

1322
00:34:09.600 --> 00:34:12.150
the trends we're describing and so if I'm rich

1323
00:34:12.330 --> 00:34:16.280
and I want someone to tell me what painting I should hang in in my living room,

1324
00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:18.320
I will pay a human to do it,

1325
00:34:18.610 --> 00:34:18.760
um,

1326
00:34:18.889 --> 00:34:19.639
and so you could be like,

1327
00:34:19.730 --> 00:34:19.880
oh,

1328
00:34:19.969 --> 00:34:20.710
there's a new job,

1329
00:34:20.730 --> 00:34:21.239
it's like,

1330
00:34:21.290 --> 00:34:21.520
you know,

1331
00:34:21.650 --> 00:34:23.860
home art decorator that didn't exist,

1332
00:34:24.170 --> 00:34:24.330
um,

1333
00:34:24.489 --> 00:34:25.159
and that is.

1334
00:34:25.300 --> 00:34:26.139
True statement.

1335
00:34:27.570 --> 00:34:27.760
But,

1336
00:34:28.130 --> 00:34:28.510
but

1337
00:34:28.730 --> 00:34:30.230
that's only because,

1338
00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:33.300
like the ultra winners are going to,

1339
00:34:33.489 --> 00:34:33.639
like,

1340
00:34:33.810 --> 00:34:33.960
you know,

1341
00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:34.510
want

1342
00:34:34.810 --> 00:34:35.469
people's taste

1343
00:34:35.690 --> 00:34:37.300
and we should do all we can to prevent a case

1344
00:34:37.730 --> 00:34:38.880
you've been voted out by the majority.

1345
00:34:39.010 --> 00:34:39.389
Thank you.

1346
00:34:39.449 --> 00:34:39.949
Thank you very much.

1347
00:34:40.170 --> 00:34:40.670
Such a pleasure.

1348
00:34:41.500 --> 00:34:42.040
I'd love to.

1349
00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:42.199
Oh,

1350
00:34:42.330 --> 00:34:42.520
thank you.

1351
00:34:42.770 --> 00:34:43.360
I enjoy that.

1352
00:34:43.469 --> 00:34:43.790
Thank you.

1353
00:34:43.929 --> 00:34:45.880
321.

1354
00:34:49.080 --> 00:34:49.820
My gosh,

1355
00:34:50.070 --> 00:34:51.060
I'm Skip Rizzo.

1356
00:34:51.230 --> 00:34:51.739
Good to meet you.

1357
00:34:51.870 --> 00:34:52.260
Hey Skip,

1358
00:34:52.310 --> 00:34:53.320
you look so familiar to me.

1359
00:34:53.520 --> 00:34:53.530
Yeah,

1360
00:34:54.040 --> 00:34:55.219
I've been on TV or movies.

1361
00:34:55.469 --> 00:34:59.300
I'm a professor at USC at the Institute for Creative Technologies,

1362
00:34:59.430 --> 00:35:01.890
and I've been studying this area for 30 years.

1363
00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:02.540
I'm also,

1364
00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:05.180
I also have a startup sidekick platform

1365
00:35:05.430 --> 00:35:05.950
which

1366
00:35:06.430 --> 00:35:07.820
in the last week

1367
00:35:08.150 --> 00:35:08.830
has

1368
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:11.050
Gotten the VA

1369
00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:12.410
to distribute

1370
00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:14.700
and endorse an AI

1371
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.210
conversational AI agent for veterans.

1372
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:17.940
I love it.

1373
00:35:18.170 --> 00:35:18.290
And,

1374
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:18.790
and you know why,

1375
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:19.060
Skip,

1376
00:35:19.080 --> 00:35:19.620
I love it

1377
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.270
is because studies have shown that military veterans,

1378
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:22.520
um,

1379
00:35:22.810 --> 00:35:23.890
sometimes prefer

1380
00:35:24.200 --> 00:35:25.260
the AI

1381
00:35:25.410 --> 00:35:26.220
conversationalist

1382
00:35:26.600 --> 00:35:29.110
because then they feel like they can actually share and vent and

1383
00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:30.790
then if you put them in front of a human therapist,

1384
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:31.620
they'll just clam up.

1385
00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:33.700
This is what our work has been doing over the years,

1386
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:34.910
so saving lives.

1387
00:35:35.290 --> 00:35:35.560
Love it.

1388
00:35:35.680 --> 00:35:36.570
Sidekick plus,

1389
00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:36.910
yeah,

1390
00:35:37.050 --> 00:35:37.550
yeah.

1391
00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:39.200
But you know,

1392
00:35:39.410 --> 00:35:40.410
going back to the industrial,

1393
00:35:40.450 --> 00:35:41.840
isn't that gonna eliminate human therapists?

1394
00:35:43.930 --> 00:35:44.720
We can do that.

1395
00:35:45.050 --> 00:35:45.200
Wait,

1396
00:35:45.220 --> 00:35:46.140
you're agreeing with it?

1397
00:35:46.530 --> 00:35:47.670
I thought you were on the other side of this.

1398
00:35:47.870 --> 00:35:47.920
No,

1399
00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:49.360
I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

1400
00:35:49.490 --> 00:35:49.680
In fact,

1401
00:35:49.810 --> 00:35:51.210
I'm not sure you're

1402
00:35:51.330 --> 00:35:52.600
necessarily the realist.

1403
00:35:52.730 --> 00:35:53.400
I think you're,

1404
00:35:53.570 --> 00:35:56.040
I think we're all realists when it comes to AI,

1405
00:35:56.250 --> 00:35:56.710
you know.

1406
00:35:57.310 --> 00:35:59.780
Maybe you're a little bit more cautious because

1407
00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:02.690
you understand the financial elements and that becomes

1408
00:36:02.910 --> 00:36:03.880
a political

1409
00:36:04.030 --> 00:36:04.540
uh

1410
00:36:04.870 --> 00:36:05.220
discussion

1411
00:36:06.110 --> 00:36:06.700
going back,

1412
00:36:06.870 --> 00:36:07.060
you know,

1413
00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.820
the whole thing with industrial revolution,

1414
00:36:08.910 --> 00:36:09.100
you know,

1415
00:36:09.250 --> 00:36:13.200
all transformations lead to certain types of job loss,

1416
00:36:13.240 --> 00:36:13.590
you know,

1417
00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:18.610
1900 you could say lamplighters or ice carriers.

1418
00:36:19.220 --> 00:36:21.000
Telegraph operators,

1419
00:36:21.220 --> 00:36:21.800
they're gone

1420
00:36:22.030 --> 00:36:23.290
computer revolution,

1421
00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:23.850
uh,

1422
00:36:24.060 --> 00:36:24.970
typesetters,

1423
00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:25.920
typists,

1424
00:36:26.180 --> 00:36:27.760
switchboard operators,

1425
00:36:28.030 --> 00:36:28.440
but

1426
00:36:28.780 --> 00:36:31.880
we've replaced those jobs with better jobs or

1427
00:36:32.050 --> 00:36:35.370
different jobs that leverage the technology we have today.

1428
00:36:35.670 --> 00:36:36.140
Now

1429
00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:37.220
I

1430
00:36:37.490 --> 00:36:39.120
am taking a position and

1431
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.670
I want to cite the World Economic Forum

1432
00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:44.280
stat that is commonly bandied about

1433
00:36:44.420 --> 00:36:46.210
uh 90 million jobs will be.

1434
00:36:46.350 --> 00:36:47.090
Loss by

1435
00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:48.300
2030,

1436
00:36:48.710 --> 00:36:48.840
but

1437
00:36:49.470 --> 00:36:50.740
people forget

1438
00:36:51.670 --> 00:36:57.290
they forget that there's another part of that 170 million jobs will be created

1439
00:36:57.500 --> 00:36:58.810
due to AI,

1440
00:36:59.070 --> 00:37:00.340
so we have a net gain.

1441
00:37:00.470 --> 00:37:01.490
And what I'm saying,

1442
00:37:01.630 --> 00:37:02.730
like with the veteran app,

1443
00:37:02.770 --> 00:37:04.690
we're not replacing jobs,

1444
00:37:04.910 --> 00:37:09.450
we're filling in a gap where there isn't enough people

1445
00:37:09.670 --> 00:37:11.540
to provide that service

1446
00:37:11.750 --> 00:37:12.710
for veterans,

1447
00:37:12.950 --> 00:37:13.280
so.

1448
00:37:13.710 --> 00:37:14.010
You know,

1449
00:37:14.470 --> 00:37:15.440
what do you think on this?

1450
00:37:15.870 --> 00:37:16.260
All right,

1451
00:37:16.430 --> 00:37:18.850
so this is one reason why it gets confusing in my opinion

1452
00:37:18.850 --> 00:37:22.100
is that like I actually agree that many jobs will be created.

1453
00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:24.580
I just think that the ratio is going to be like way out of whack

1454
00:37:24.910 --> 00:37:26.380
and economists have something,

1455
00:37:26.510 --> 00:37:29.020
there's a phenomenon for this called job polarization.

1456
00:37:29.450 --> 00:37:32.240
Which is you're gonna have a handful of high-end jobs and a lot

1457
00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:35.560
of low-end jobs and all the middle tier jobs are gonna get decimated.

1458
00:37:35.810 --> 00:37:37.640
And so the middle tier jobs are like a

1459
00:37:37.640 --> 00:37:39.870
lot of the white collar professionals that right now

1460
00:37:40.040 --> 00:37:42.080
can make a good living as a lawyer,

1461
00:37:42.250 --> 00:37:42.760
consultant,

1462
00:37:42.970 --> 00:37:43.400
accountant,

1463
00:37:43.490 --> 00:37:43.960
banker,

1464
00:37:44.130 --> 00:37:44.950
marketing pro.

1465
00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:49.910
AI is gonna just get rid of a lot of those jobs and I say this because I've sat with uh

1466
00:37:50.130 --> 00:37:52.470
a public company CEO who said to me,

1467
00:37:52.740 --> 00:37:53.000
um,

1468
00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:54.080
hey Andrew.

1469
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.910
I'm gonna fire 20% of my workers this year.

1470
00:37:57.000 --> 00:37:59.030
I'm gonna fire another 20% 2 years from now.

1471
00:37:59.160 --> 00:38:01.240
I'm gonna fire another 20% 2 years from now.

1472
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:02.430
Every time it happens,

1473
00:38:02.520 --> 00:38:03.710
I'm going to get a bonus.

1474
00:38:03.910 --> 00:38:04.190
By the way,

1475
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:05.110
if I don't do this,

1476
00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:07.500
they're going to fire me and replace me with someone else.

1477
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.860
And multiple big company CEOs recently raised their hand and said,

1478
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.500
I'm out

1479
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:14.940
because I don't want to undergo the AI transformation

1480
00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:16.190
and then the board

1481
00:38:16.390 --> 00:38:17.760
will then like grab someone.

1482
00:38:17.980 --> 00:38:18.680
Who will?

1483
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:22.490
So if you look at all of those corporations scrubbing jobs,

1484
00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:23.870
I think that's going to be

1485
00:38:24.090 --> 00:38:24.710
a huge,

1486
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:29.160
huge reduction in the 70 million white collar workers,

1487
00:38:29.210 --> 00:38:32.040
and I'm gonna give you a data point that I think cuts in this direction.

1488
00:38:32.410 --> 00:38:36.120
We now spend as a society more money on data centers than on office buildings.

1489
00:38:36.180 --> 00:38:37.410
I want everyone to think about that.

1490
00:38:37.610 --> 00:38:40.000
Like we spend more money on data centers and office buildings,

1491
00:38:40.130 --> 00:38:41.480
so the server is the new human.

1492
00:38:42.060 --> 00:38:42.770
Anyone who's like,

1493
00:38:42.890 --> 00:38:43.010
hey,

1494
00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:44.880
we're gonna spend $3 trillion

1495
00:38:45.100 --> 00:38:46.130
on AI,

1496
00:38:46.300 --> 00:38:48.490
but it's not going to affect millions of workers,

1497
00:38:48.660 --> 00:38:51.930
I think does not understand the way any of these CEOs' incentives are,

1498
00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:54.530
doesn't understand the way the stock market's gonna cudgel

1499
00:38:54.530 --> 00:38:56.190
them if they don't get with the program.

1500
00:38:56.460 --> 00:38:58.650
If you employ a lot of people in the AI age,

1501
00:38:58.700 --> 00:38:59.810
it means you're behind the times,

1502
00:38:59.860 --> 00:39:00.530
a dinosaur,

1503
00:39:00.620 --> 00:39:02.240
we should replace you with someone else.

1504
00:39:02.500 --> 00:39:05.870
So you're gonna see a massive contraction of every very significant,

1505
00:39:06.140 --> 00:39:06.370
um,

1506
00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:07.890
sized company,

1507
00:39:08.110 --> 00:39:10.810
or you're gonna see a new CEO who's gonna take the hatchet very quickly.

1508
00:39:11.540 --> 00:39:11.670
See,

1509
00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:15.630
that's why I say you're an AI pessimist because you're not talking

1510
00:39:15.630 --> 00:39:19.270
about the jobs that AI will create to replace those jobs.

1511
00:39:19.450 --> 00:39:19.630
All right,

1512
00:39:19.720 --> 00:39:19.990
Skip,

1513
00:39:20.080 --> 00:39:20.980
we do have to pause here.

1514
00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:21.150
Good

1515
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:22.220
luck in 2028.

1516
00:39:22.520 --> 00:39:22.750
Thank you,

1517
00:39:22.810 --> 00:39:23.070
Skip.

1518
00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:23.670
Real pleasure.

1519
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:24.680
Sidekick plus.

1520
00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:26.750
If you'd like to be the next debater,

1521
00:39:26.890 --> 00:39:30.470
please get to the chair in +321.

1522
00:39:32.120 --> 00:39:32.130
Oh,

1523
00:39:34.430 --> 00:39:34.780
Andrew,

1524
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:35.820
nice to meet you.

1525
00:39:35.870 --> 00:39:36.430
I'm Vern.

1526
00:39:36.590 --> 00:39:36.940
Vern,

1527
00:39:37.070 --> 00:39:37.250
yeah,

1528
00:39:37.910 --> 00:39:39.210
my second name is Andrew also,

1529
00:39:39.230 --> 00:39:39.640
actually.

1530
00:39:40.310 --> 00:39:42.700
So you're like Vern Andrew and Andrew is my first name.

1531
00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:43.060
Cool.

1532
00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:44.250
I wanna kind of

1533
00:39:44.430 --> 00:39:48.010
just check where you're at on your claim because you're saying millions of jobs

1534
00:39:48.150 --> 00:39:48.870
or the rate

1535
00:39:48.990 --> 00:39:51.270
of new jobs will just be outweighed,

1536
00:39:51.430 --> 00:39:51.580
right?

1537
00:39:52.070 --> 00:39:52.220
Where,

1538
00:39:52.350 --> 00:39:52.560
where,

1539
00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:54.060
like where is that coming from though,

1540
00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:55.600
because let's use some.

1541
00:39:56.080 --> 00:39:57.000
Metric to measure it,

1542
00:39:57.080 --> 00:39:57.270
right?

1543
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.350
Let's talk about unemployment,

1544
00:39:58.370 --> 00:39:58.710
for example.

1545
00:39:58.840 --> 00:39:59.670
What is it currently?

1546
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:01.030
It's around 3 to 4,

1547
00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:01.950
5%,

1548
00:40:02.810 --> 00:40:03.120
right?

1549
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:04.040
So

1550
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:04.580
in

1551
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:05.990
the past,

1552
00:40:06.160 --> 00:40:06.580
right,

1553
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.630
how bad has unemployment gone?

1554
00:40:08.700 --> 00:40:08.910
I mean,

1555
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:09.820
obviously you

1556
00:40:10.170 --> 00:40:10.290
said

1557
00:40:10.640 --> 00:40:11.430
like 25%,

1558
00:40:11.600 --> 00:40:12.170
25%,

1559
00:40:12.250 --> 00:40:12.360
right?

1560
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.230
And that's kind of like a ceiling that has happened,

1561
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:15.990
but something crazy happened,

1562
00:40:16.080 --> 00:40:16.420
right?

1563
00:40:16.910 --> 00:40:17.820
Something crazy happened at that.

1564
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:19.020
You mean the Great Depression or no?

1565
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:19.300
Yeah,

1566
00:40:19.470 --> 00:40:19.540
no,

1567
00:40:19.660 --> 00:40:20.230
the Great Depression.

1568
00:40:20.470 --> 00:40:20.980
Even then,

1569
00:40:21.150 --> 00:40:21.790
since then,

1570
00:40:21.950 --> 00:40:23.540
it's never exceeded 25%,

1571
00:40:23.630 --> 00:40:23.770
right?

1572
00:40:23.830 --> 00:40:24.060
Oh yeah,

1573
00:40:24.110 --> 00:40:26.570
I just want to dig into this number because it's super important.

1574
00:40:26.870 --> 00:40:28.510
So the unemployment rate

1575
00:40:28.700 --> 00:40:29.370
measures

1576
00:40:29.490 --> 00:40:32.740
who's in the workforce actively looking and can't find a job.

1577
00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:35.000
Right now it seems like a very low,

1578
00:40:35.270 --> 00:40:35.740
reasonable,

1579
00:40:35.790 --> 00:40:37.070
like 3 to 4%.

1580
00:40:37.370 --> 00:40:38.520
It doesn't measure

1581
00:40:38.730 --> 00:40:39.580
underemployment,

1582
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:40.180
so it's like,

1583
00:40:40.270 --> 00:40:40.420
hey,

1584
00:40:40.470 --> 00:40:43.300
I'm a college grad who like then took a job as a barista.

1585
00:40:43.430 --> 00:40:44.260
An Uber driver

1586
00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:46.770
in the unemployment rate that counts as fully employed.

1587
00:40:46.860 --> 00:40:48.150
There's something called the U6,

1588
00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:49.530
which is you're underemployed,

1589
00:40:49.550 --> 00:40:51.090
and it's about twice the,

1590
00:40:51.180 --> 00:40:52.490
the U3 unemployment rate.

1591
00:40:52.580 --> 00:40:54.130
So instead of 3 to 4%,

1592
00:40:54.260 --> 00:40:55.610
it might read as like 67,

1593
00:40:55.700 --> 00:40:56.050
8%,

1594
00:40:56.100 --> 00:40:56.960
which seems worse.

1595
00:40:57.180 --> 00:40:58.090
So then you say,

1596
00:40:58.140 --> 00:40:58.410
OK,

1597
00:40:58.540 --> 00:40:59.650
even if I accept 67,

1598
00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:00.200
8%,

1599
00:41:00.490 --> 00:41:00.810
maybe.

1600
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:03.890
And then you have an underemployment rate of recent college graduates,

1601
00:41:03.940 --> 00:41:06.650
which right now is 42% heading up to 50%.

1602
00:41:06.940 --> 00:41:07.600
And that's

1603
00:41:07.900 --> 00:41:08.330
like a very,

1604
00:41:08.420 --> 00:41:09.970
very bad thing for the future.

1605
00:41:10.410 --> 00:41:10.880
So you're saying

1606
00:41:11.570 --> 00:41:13.880
you're saying 1 in 2 college grads can't get a job?

1607
00:41:14.010 --> 00:41:14.080
No,

1608
00:41:14.170 --> 00:41:14.240
no,

1609
00:41:14.330 --> 00:41:15.920
they're underemployed according to,

1610
00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:16.160
to,

1611
00:41:16.250 --> 00:41:16.720
to the stats.

1612
00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:17.840
But here's like the major,

1613
00:41:17.970 --> 00:41:18.470
major

1614
00:41:18.890 --> 00:41:21.910
like hair on fire fact that we need to actually

1615
00:41:22.050 --> 00:41:23.090
get our arms around

1616
00:41:23.330 --> 00:41:26.990
is that the labor force participation rate in the United States

1617
00:41:27.130 --> 00:41:31.040
has been declining and declining and declining over the last number of years,

1618
00:41:31.060 --> 00:41:32.400
whereas we're together right now,

1619
00:41:32.450 --> 00:41:33.830
it's at a 20-year low

1620
00:41:34.050 --> 00:41:36.560
of around 61.5%.

1621
00:41:36.770 --> 00:41:38.910
Which includes the fact that 1/3

1622
00:41:39.040 --> 00:41:43.580
of working age American men is no longer in the workforce.

1623
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.100
And you guys all know dudes who resemble this.

1624
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:47.810
All know dudes who resemble this.

1625
00:41:48.370 --> 00:41:49.300
So that person,

1626
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:50.910
that guy who went home and said,

1627
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:51.660
I'm out,

1628
00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:54.620
no longer gets factored into the headline unemployment.

1629
00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:54.790
I mean,

1630
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:55.270
that's fine,

1631
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:55.710
but OK,

1632
00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:56.070
let's,

1633
00:41:56.120 --> 00:41:58.620
let's use that ceiling of 25%.

1634
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.230
The highest it's been in modern history is like during COVID,

1635
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:01.440
right?

1636
00:42:01.520 --> 00:42:03.310
It maybe got up to 15%.

1637
00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:05.240
But all in that's to say

1638
00:42:05.370 --> 00:42:09.700
you're claiming that AI is gonna be the reason why jobs are eliminated,

1639
00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:10.200
which

1640
00:42:10.340 --> 00:42:12.730
I would argue I don't think it's jobs are gonna be eliminated.

1641
00:42:12.860 --> 00:42:14.290
I think it's gonna be disrupted

1642
00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:16.480
just like every other revolution that's happened,

1643
00:42:16.850 --> 00:42:17.410
but

1644
00:42:18.060 --> 00:42:19.900
everything has came back like because of policy,

1645
00:42:20.100 --> 00:42:22.250
because of institutions that were built in response to

1646
00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:24.090
these things that have happened like we used to,

1647
00:42:24.190 --> 00:42:25.640
we used to not work

1648
00:42:25.780 --> 00:42:26.160
like

1649
00:42:26.420 --> 00:42:27.130
we used to work,

1650
00:42:27.220 --> 00:42:27.450
you know,

1651
00:42:27.660 --> 00:42:29.290
more than 40 hours a week back then,

1652
00:42:29.380 --> 00:42:30.250
but what came out of that,

1653
00:42:30.380 --> 00:42:30.570
you know,

1654
00:42:30.740 --> 00:42:31.930
the people gathered up and said,

1655
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.210
hey,

1656
00:42:32.300 --> 00:42:32.850
we need some labor.

1657
00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:33.280
Laws,

1658
00:42:33.340 --> 00:42:33.770
child,

1659
00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:34.910
children didn't work,

1660
00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:35.370
you know,

1661
00:42:35.540 --> 00:42:36.860
all these things have come up with it.

1662
00:42:36.900 --> 00:42:37.880
So let's just say

1663
00:42:38.080 --> 00:42:38.890
jobs are eliminated,

1664
00:42:39.020 --> 00:42:40.290
tasks are eliminated.

1665
00:42:40.340 --> 00:42:43.730
I think the jobs are there because you even cited talking about customer support,

1666
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:44.050
right?

1667
00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:45.530
Like you get through an agent,

1668
00:42:45.580 --> 00:42:45.890
whatever,

1669
00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:46.810
but at the same time,

1670
00:42:46.900 --> 00:42:48.170
here's an anecdotal story.

1671
00:42:48.620 --> 00:42:52.410
I was talking to a chat agent and I just wasn't getting any answers

1672
00:42:52.580 --> 00:42:53.970
and it's kind of morbid and it's,

1673
00:42:54.140 --> 00:42:54.290
it,

1674
00:42:54.420 --> 00:42:54.530
it,

1675
00:42:54.660 --> 00:42:56.970
it's kind of sucky to get the attention of a human.

1676
00:42:57.370 --> 00:42:59.560
But I just told the AI chat chatbot like,

1677
00:42:59.580 --> 00:43:00.060
hey man,

1678
00:43:00.250 --> 00:43:01.320
get me a person or I'm gonna kill

1679
00:43:01.490 --> 00:43:01.840
myself.

1680
00:43:02.050 --> 00:43:03.440
So it's like you can override these things.

1681
00:43:03.530 --> 00:43:04.030
I think

1682
00:43:04.610 --> 00:43:05.000
exactly.

1683
00:43:05.090 --> 00:43:08.310
But the thing is I think humans are a lot smarter than that

1684
00:43:08.810 --> 00:43:10.070
because at the same time,

1685
00:43:10.410 --> 00:43:12.350
how does AI get its value or its knowledge,

1686
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:12.570
right?

1687
00:43:12.650 --> 00:43:14.310
Let's say knowledge is a value.

1688
00:43:15.010 --> 00:43:16.880
AI doesn't know anything except what we already know.

1689
00:43:17.010 --> 00:43:18.040
We're giving it this information,

1690
00:43:18.090 --> 00:43:19.550
maybe it could process it,

1691
00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:23.280
but that's why I'm saying I don't think the jobs are gonna be eliminated at a rate

1692
00:43:23.450 --> 00:43:24.270
that is as

1693
00:43:24.460 --> 00:43:25.960
doomsday like that you claim,

1694
00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:26.830
but

1695
00:43:27.650 --> 00:43:29.190
I'll agree that there will be a disruption.

1696
00:43:29.780 --> 00:43:32.130
So if we agree that there's gonna be disruption,

1697
00:43:32.260 --> 00:43:32.810
I think there are,

1698
00:43:32.860 --> 00:43:34.560
there are two elements that people

1699
00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:36.180
can look at differently.

1700
00:43:36.470 --> 00:43:37.720
One is the magnitude,

1701
00:43:37.740 --> 00:43:39.760
and the second is the pace of the rate.

1702
00:43:40.020 --> 00:43:40.130
Now,

1703
00:43:40.220 --> 00:43:42.800
I'm someone who thinks it's gonna be very high magnitude

1704
00:43:42.940 --> 00:43:43.330
and very,

1705
00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:44.300
very fast

1706
00:43:44.540 --> 00:43:45.940
over a whole range of industries,

1707
00:43:46.060 --> 00:43:47.800
in part because I talked to CEOs

1708
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:49.910
who run firms in insurance,

1709
00:43:50.060 --> 00:43:50.320
in,

1710
00:43:50.380 --> 00:43:50.580
uh,

1711
00:43:50.620 --> 00:43:51.030
tech,

1712
00:43:51.220 --> 00:43:52.300
in finance,

1713
00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:53.570
and they're all saying to me,

1714
00:43:53.700 --> 00:43:53.850
hey,

1715
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.330
Andrew,

1716
00:43:54.380 --> 00:43:55.230
I'm gonna cut

1717
00:43:55.460 --> 00:43:56.050
2030,

1718
00:43:56.100 --> 00:43:56.330
40,

1719
00:43:56.460 --> 00:43:58.530
50% of my workers or I myself I'm gonna lose.

1720
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:00.910
But then what about the CEOs that are backpedaling on

1721
00:44:00.910 --> 00:44:03.710
it like you just said Oracle dropped 30K jobs,

1722
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:05.060
but some jobs are coming back

1723
00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:08.460
or it's like they're hiring internally and then they have to fill in those gaps for,

1724
00:44:08.600 --> 00:44:08.710
you know,

1725
00:44:08.930 --> 00:44:09.680
succession planning.

1726
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:11.190
It's all happening.

1727
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:11.900
I agree.

1728
00:44:12.040 --> 00:44:15.420
I'm still not convinced at the rate because you use the number of millions

1729
00:44:15.560 --> 00:44:17.790
versus the magnitude or the significant digits that

1730
00:44:17.790 --> 00:44:18.910
you've used is like tens of thousands.

1731
00:44:19.010 --> 00:44:19.660
That's only

1732
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:24.270
six digits versus 78 digit like jobs are gone unless you have a timeline on it.

1733
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:24.590
Yes,

1734
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:24.870
no,

1735
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:25.030
no,

1736
00:44:25.120 --> 00:44:25.240
and,

1737
00:44:25.270 --> 00:44:25.830
and please let,

1738
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:27.490
let me actually it's a very important point to make.

1739
00:44:27.850 --> 00:44:30.110
And this is something that every CEO knows.

1740
00:44:30.410 --> 00:44:32.070
The easiest people to fire

1741
00:44:32.290 --> 00:44:34.080
are the people you have not hired yet.

1742
00:44:34.210 --> 00:44:35.910
As someone who runs a company,

1743
00:44:36.130 --> 00:44:38.600
the single biggest move I can make is to just be like,

1744
00:44:38.690 --> 00:44:39.080
hey guys,

1745
00:44:39.170 --> 00:44:40.320
we're not gonna be hiring

1746
00:44:40.490 --> 00:44:41.950
junior whippersnappers.

1747
00:44:42.130 --> 00:44:44.370
And then where does that show up in the numbers?

1748
00:44:44.730 --> 00:44:47.240
It shows up in the underemployment rate

1749
00:44:47.240 --> 00:44:49.230
of recent level of recent college graduates,

1750
00:44:49.330 --> 00:44:49.480
uh,

1751
00:44:49.650 --> 00:44:51.520
and that number is going up like that,

1752
00:44:51.570 --> 00:44:52.560
that's objective fact.

1753
00:44:52.650 --> 00:44:54.320
So you take my small company

1754
00:44:54.650 --> 00:44:56.280
and we've probably replaced,

1755
00:44:56.450 --> 00:44:57.210
let's call it,

1756
00:44:57.410 --> 00:44:57.880
you know,

1757
00:44:58.250 --> 00:44:59.230
5 jobs,

1758
00:44:59.330 --> 00:44:59.440
uh,

1759
00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:00.000
with AI.

1760
00:45:00.020 --> 00:45:00.880
It's not enormous.

1761
00:45:01.190 --> 00:45:02.730
But then you multiply

1762
00:45:02.980 --> 00:45:04.280
my small firm

1763
00:45:04.460 --> 00:45:07.550
times like the millions of small firms around the country.

1764
00:45:07.790 --> 00:45:09.940
And so I think you're going to be able to discern

1765
00:45:09.940 --> 00:45:13.350
easily like 6 figures of layoffs due to AI directly.

1766
00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:16.610
And then they're going to be all these other layoffs that don't make the headlines

1767
00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:17.490
because

1768
00:45:17.630 --> 00:45:18.420
like Noble Mobile,

1769
00:45:18.470 --> 00:45:18.860
my company,

1770
00:45:18.950 --> 00:45:20.690
not hiring 5 people is not a headline.

1771
00:45:20.950 --> 00:45:22.500
But then you multiply that times all the.

1772
00:45:22.630 --> 00:45:23.530
Small businesses,

1773
00:45:23.660 --> 00:45:24.010
like,

1774
00:45:24.100 --> 00:45:25.170
I think it gets into the millions.

1775
00:45:25.260 --> 00:45:25.330
Yeah,

1776
00:45:25.420 --> 00:45:26.290
you're saying six figures,

1777
00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:28.680
but then it's like at the magnitude of multiple companies are doing that

1778
00:45:28.780 --> 00:45:29.370
at the end of the day,

1779
00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:32.410
like maybe there won't be employees left and they'll have to rehire anyway,

1780
00:45:32.610 --> 00:45:33.410
just like the stock market,

1781
00:45:33.460 --> 00:45:34.380
it goes up and down.

1782
00:45:34.540 --> 00:45:36.090
Maybe this rate will go up and down,

1783
00:45:36.220 --> 00:45:38.720
but you're arguing at a rampantcy rate of just like

1784
00:45:39.100 --> 00:45:39.890
non-convergence.

1785
00:45:39.980 --> 00:45:41.650
I definitely think it's non-convergent.

1786
00:45:41.700 --> 00:45:43.970
I think we're in for a secular reduction.

1787
00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:48.170
In the number of people who show up to an office and look at a computer screen,

1788
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.120
and that includes people who do it remotely.

1789
00:45:50.220 --> 00:45:51.790
And the comparison I'd make

1790
00:45:51.980 --> 00:45:54.010
is that imagine when the first robot arms started

1791
00:45:54.010 --> 00:45:56.220
showing up on the factory floors in like 1990,

1792
00:45:56.260 --> 00:45:56.960
and then the,

1793
00:45:57.220 --> 00:45:58.450
like people in the factory like,

1794
00:45:58.470 --> 00:45:59.010
oh no,

1795
00:45:59.180 --> 00:46:00.370
like what's going on there?

1796
00:46:00.660 --> 00:46:01.530
And then some of them,

1797
00:46:01.580 --> 00:46:02.760
100% said,

1798
00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:04.650
this will not threaten my job

1799
00:46:04.950 --> 00:46:06.450
because no one can turn that.

1800
00:46:06.560 --> 00:46:07.660
Screw the way I can

1801
00:46:07.910 --> 00:46:09.450
because like no one can do it

1802
00:46:09.640 --> 00:46:09.930
now.

1803
00:46:10.100 --> 00:46:11.620
We are in that moment right now.

1804
00:46:11.710 --> 00:46:14.010
It's just it's less visible because it's not a robot arm,

1805
00:46:14.270 --> 00:46:17.970
but $3 trillion being spent on intelligent machines that are doubling in power

1806
00:46:18.150 --> 00:46:19.020
every number of weeks,

1807
00:46:19.070 --> 00:46:21.690
they're 100% going to replace millions of workers

1808
00:46:21.930 --> 00:46:22.810
in my opinion,

1809
00:46:23.030 --> 00:46:27.340
and we will all see who's right in terms of this claim over the next number of months.

1810
00:46:27.470 --> 00:46:28.370
I dearly hope

1811
00:46:28.510 --> 00:46:28.700
that I.

1812
00:46:28.850 --> 00:46:29.470
Incorrect,

1813
00:46:29.640 --> 00:46:30.770
but I've seen nothing

1814
00:46:31.040 --> 00:46:32.030
to persuade me that I am.

1815
00:46:32.160 --> 00:46:32.710
If you're incorrect,

1816
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.910
we're gonna pause here because we're out of time with this claim.

1817
00:46:35.010 --> 00:46:35.020
Hey,

1818
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:35.560
pleasure.

1819
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:36.030
Great to see you,

1820
00:46:36.080 --> 00:46:36.210
man.

1821
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:37.030
It's great to meet you.

1822
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:37.710
Yeah,

1823
00:46:38.160 --> 00:46:38.420
brother,

1824
00:46:38.520 --> 00:46:38.980
thank you.

1825
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:42.590
My next surrounded claim is that universal basic income will

1826
00:46:42.590 --> 00:46:46.160
become necessary as AI reduces the need for human labor.

1827
00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:47.590
If you'd like to be the next debater,

1828
00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:51.010
please get to the chair in 321.

1829
00:46:54.580 --> 00:46:55.050
Hello.

1830
00:46:55.180 --> 00:46:55.600
Well done.

1831
00:46:56.140 --> 00:46:56.620
How are you?

1832
00:46:56.740 --> 00:46:57.050
How are you?

1833
00:46:57.180 --> 00:46:57.530
What's your name,

1834
00:46:57.620 --> 00:46:58.050
Sophia?

1835
00:46:58.100 --> 00:46:58.250
I mean,

1836
00:46:58.300 --> 00:46:59.770
it's great to talk to you because you were the

1837
00:46:59.770 --> 00:47:02.070
person who first introduced me to the concept of UBI

1838
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.090
in the first place.

1839
00:47:03.220 --> 00:47:05.330
So a lot of your ideas like have been

1840
00:47:05.330 --> 00:47:07.040
floating around in my consciousness for a long time.

1841
00:47:07.260 --> 00:47:09.320
So I guess the main points I want to make here

1842
00:47:09.460 --> 00:47:11.090
is just to Raise awareness because a lot of

1843
00:47:11.090 --> 00:47:13.440
people presumably are going to be watching this video

1844
00:47:13.610 --> 00:47:15.060
to the different types of UBI

1845
00:47:15.260 --> 00:47:16.970
that we have like available or have been proposed.

1846
00:47:17.020 --> 00:47:17.520
So for example,

1847
00:47:17.620 --> 00:47:19.720
we have a sovereign wealth fund which is like

1848
00:47:19.900 --> 00:47:21.170
akin to what Norway has.

1849
00:47:21.260 --> 00:47:23.320
Alaska has more of like a public wealth fund,

1850
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:24.110
petroleum dividend,

1851
00:47:24.180 --> 00:47:24.330
yeah,

1852
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:24.490
yeah,

1853
00:47:24.540 --> 00:47:24.650
yeah,

1854
00:47:24.740 --> 00:47:25.280
for everyone.

1855
00:47:26.080 --> 00:47:26.500
A

1856
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.220
universal basic dividend would basically like

1857
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.550
distribute wealth to Americans based on like a

1858
00:47:31.550 --> 00:47:34.650
weighted index of say the top AI companies

1859
00:47:34.860 --> 00:47:37.030
um and how you actually define what the top

1860
00:47:37.030 --> 00:47:39.060
AI companies are and whether they go into like

1861
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:41.190
infrastructure frontier models,

1862
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:41.510
uh,

1863
00:47:41.600 --> 00:47:41.960
etc.

1864
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:42.300
etc.

1865
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:42.780
etc.

1866
00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:44.080
that's the that's really.

1867
00:47:44.190 --> 00:47:45.620
I think the core topic of contention,

1868
00:47:45.670 --> 00:47:46.200
it's like,

1869
00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:47.050
what would we even

1870
00:47:47.420 --> 00:47:48.540
categorize as

1871
00:47:48.710 --> 00:47:52.340
are you accepting the need for universal basic income generally and

1872
00:47:52.340 --> 00:47:55.160
just want to figure out the flavor or the mechanism?

1873
00:47:55.310 --> 00:47:56.620
I'm most interested in the flavor and the

1874
00:47:56.620 --> 00:47:58.250
mechanism because I think that there hasn't been

1875
00:47:58.390 --> 00:48:00.130
like rigorous enough work done in this.

1876
00:48:00.230 --> 00:48:02.280
I generally am of the viewpoint that

1877
00:48:02.450 --> 00:48:04.800
We need to put more research and resources

1878
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:05.950
into measuring,

1879
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:06.070
uh,

1880
00:48:06.160 --> 00:48:08.220
unemployment and tracing it back to AI,

1881
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:08.510
right?

1882
00:48:08.670 --> 00:48:11.610
I don't know what sort of indices there are available right now that we can,

1883
00:48:12.160 --> 00:48:12.300
uh,

1884
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:12.940
sort of

1885
00:48:13.520 --> 00:48:16.150
straightforwardly point to and be like this is because of AI,

1886
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:17.150
this is displacement.

1887
00:48:17.240 --> 00:48:19.860
Once we have more insight from these sort of metrics,

1888
00:48:20.120 --> 00:48:22.150
then I think we can come to a conclusion

1889
00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:24.570
on when UBI should start to be instated,

1890
00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:27.670
and I do think that there are sort of like incrementalist policies,

1891
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:28.020
right?

1892
00:48:28.470 --> 00:48:28.700
Um,

1893
00:48:28.790 --> 00:48:30.940
you could do things like wage insurance,

1894
00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:31.220
right?

1895
00:48:31.310 --> 00:48:32.660
So if somebody loses their job,

1896
00:48:32.910 --> 00:48:34.370
they made 80K a year,

1897
00:48:34.470 --> 00:48:37.960
and they have to go get another job because their job was displaced by AI

1898
00:48:38.350 --> 00:48:40.290
and they have to get a job that's like 50K a year,

1899
00:48:40.430 --> 00:48:40.860
then you could,

1900
00:48:40.910 --> 00:48:41.100
you know,

1901
00:48:41.270 --> 00:48:41.930
compensate,

1902
00:48:42.190 --> 00:48:43.330
like the government could compensate,

1903
00:48:43.470 --> 00:48:43.850
uh.

1904
00:48:44.430 --> 00:48:46.300
Those people for like the amount that they lost,

1905
00:48:46.420 --> 00:48:46.620
right?

1906
00:48:46.740 --> 00:48:46.850
Um,

1907
00:48:47.060 --> 00:48:48.850
so you are you actually agreeing that universal

1908
00:48:48.850 --> 00:48:51.400
basic income will become necessary as they think

1909
00:48:51.700 --> 00:48:52.380
labor because I'm,

1910
00:48:52.420 --> 00:48:53.050
I'm with you then,

1911
00:48:53.220 --> 00:48:53.370
yeah,

1912
00:48:53.460 --> 00:48:53.800
yeah,

1913
00:48:53.830 --> 00:48:53.880
yeah,

1914
00:48:54.020 --> 00:48:54.130
I,

1915
00:48:54.220 --> 00:48:54.930
I think so.

1916
00:48:54.950 --> 00:48:55.750
I think right now,

1917
00:48:55.770 --> 00:48:56.080
no.

1918
00:48:56.140 --> 00:48:56.830
So maybe you,

1919
00:48:56.980 --> 00:48:58.240
you and I disagree on the time frame,

1920
00:48:58.460 --> 00:48:58.690
right?

1921
00:48:58.950 --> 00:49:00.840
So you would you say that you agree that right now

1922
00:49:00.980 --> 00:49:01.450
is the time?

1923
00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:02.210
I would say yes.

1924
00:49:02.270 --> 00:49:02.740
And here's,

1925
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:04.090
here's one of the arguments I would make.

1926
00:49:04.300 --> 00:49:06.730
Our data was used to create these models.

1927
00:49:06.870 --> 00:49:09.970
Our data is currently being sold and resold for several $100 billion.

1928
00:49:10.750 --> 00:49:11.420
a year.

1929
00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:12.900
And one fun thing is that,

1930
00:49:13.030 --> 00:49:13.180
you know,

1931
00:49:13.230 --> 00:49:13.780
I asked like,

1932
00:49:13.870 --> 00:49:14.220
hey,

1933
00:49:14.470 --> 00:49:16.340
which American has gotten paid for their data?

1934
00:49:16.710 --> 00:49:19.540
And most Americans have not gotten paid anything for their data.

1935
00:49:19.630 --> 00:49:21.490
I am probably the only person in the circle

1936
00:49:21.710 --> 00:49:23.360
who actually did get paid for their data,

1937
00:49:23.460 --> 00:49:24.090
kind of,

1938
00:49:24.590 --> 00:49:24.900
um,

1939
00:49:25.070 --> 00:49:25.170
in,

1940
00:49:25.310 --> 00:49:28.500
in that I got a note from the publisher of one of my books saying,

1941
00:49:28.590 --> 00:49:29.060
hey,

1942
00:49:29.310 --> 00:49:31.260
AI wants to eat your book and,

1943
00:49:31.350 --> 00:49:31.570
and,

1944
00:49:31.590 --> 00:49:32.100
uh,

1945
00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:33.370
ingest its

1946
00:49:33.790 --> 00:49:35.780
ideas and it will pay you.

1947
00:49:36.210 --> 00:49:36.360
Um,

1948
00:49:36.490 --> 00:49:38.270
$2500 for the privilege.

1949
00:49:38.390 --> 00:49:38.640
Now,

1950
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:40.900
imagine if every American got a message like that,

1951
00:49:40.930 --> 00:49:41.240
being like,

1952
00:49:41.330 --> 00:49:41.480
hey,

1953
00:49:41.570 --> 00:49:44.650
your data got used to form these $1 trillion

1954
00:49:45.690 --> 00:49:46.750
models and companies,

1955
00:49:46.810 --> 00:49:49.400
and you are now going to get a certain amount of money back,

1956
00:49:49.690 --> 00:49:49.880
um,

1957
00:49:50.120 --> 00:49:50.630
for that.

1958
00:49:50.690 --> 00:49:52.720
I think that would go over great with the American.

1959
00:49:52.850 --> 00:49:53.070
People,

1960
00:49:53.160 --> 00:49:54.320
the majority of Americans are for it,

1961
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:58.230
but I also think it's going to become increasingly common sense and necessary

1962
00:49:58.590 --> 00:50:01.020
because more and more Americans are going to get kicked to the curb.

1963
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.430
Yeah,

1964
00:50:01.520 --> 00:50:04.190
do you think the frontier models should be voted out with the majority?

1965
00:50:04.240 --> 00:50:04.900
Thank you so much.

1966
00:50:05.080 --> 00:50:05.270
Thank you.

1967
00:50:05.290 --> 00:50:05.890
It's great to meet you.

1968
00:50:06.080 --> 00:50:06.890
Great to meet you too.

1969
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:09.470
321.

1970
00:50:12.020 --> 00:50:12.290
How are you?

1971
00:50:12.340 --> 00:50:12.700
Hello.

1972
00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:13.210
Good.

1973
00:50:13.300 --> 00:50:14.010
I like your shirt.

1974
00:50:14.140 --> 00:50:14.490
Thank you.

1975
00:50:14.700 --> 00:50:15.570
My name's Jason.

1976
00:50:15.660 --> 00:50:18.510
I am a serial entrepreneurial failure,

1977
00:50:18.620 --> 00:50:19.860
but I haven't given up yet,

1978
00:50:20.300 --> 00:50:20.960
so.

1979
00:50:21.720 --> 00:50:24.190
I can come up with technical differentiators in my sleep,

1980
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:24.630
but I'm,

1981
00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:27.730
I suck at market research and execute and go to market.

1982
00:50:28.080 --> 00:50:29.730
So my two cents for you,

1983
00:50:30.120 --> 00:50:30.350
um,

1984
00:50:30.640 --> 00:50:32.830
would be to find a co-founder or teammate,

1985
00:50:33.120 --> 00:50:33.310
um,

1986
00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:34.210
who has the,

1987
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:38.020
the strengths that would complement you because virtually none of us

1988
00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:39.180
can

1989
00:50:39.390 --> 00:50:40.270
is great at everything.

1990
00:50:40.720 --> 00:50:43.070
I certainly would include myself in that and I'm applying.

1991
00:50:43.200 --> 00:50:45.410
Accelerate is largely to find a co-founder.

1992
00:50:45.580 --> 00:50:46.040
So,

1993
00:50:47.020 --> 00:50:47.210
OK,

1994
00:50:47.380 --> 00:50:47.510
cool.

1995
00:50:47.660 --> 00:50:47.890
Uh,

1996
00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:49.490
confirming side from the universe.

1997
00:50:49.580 --> 00:50:49.980
I was like

1998
00:50:50.180 --> 00:50:50.450
thank you.

1999
00:50:50.510 --> 00:50:52.770
And I even have a conversational AI chatbot

2000
00:50:52.770 --> 00:50:54.770
that lets you talk to historical figures and build

2001
00:50:54.770 --> 00:50:57.330
relationships with them like Marcus Aurelius or von

2002
00:50:57.330 --> 00:50:59.360
Rumi or Long Champa or whoever you want.

2003
00:50:59.420 --> 00:51:00.010
So yes,

2004
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:00.700
what's it called,

2005
00:51:00.740 --> 00:51:01.300
the chatbot?

2006
00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:02.610
It's called Arovi.

2007
00:51:03.020 --> 00:51:04.530
A I A R O V I.

2008
00:51:05.170 --> 00:51:06.710
Made up words have better trademarks.

2009
00:51:07.170 --> 00:51:09.340
I'm not a diametrically opposed to this claim.

2010
00:51:09.450 --> 00:51:10.800
I hope we have UBI.

2011
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:16.030
And the main reason for that is work has a bad reputation for many reasons.

2012
00:51:16.240 --> 00:51:17.990
People are doing soul sucking,

2013
00:51:18.040 --> 00:51:20.120
menial tasks that don't enrich them,

2014
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:22.460
what David Graber calls bullshit jobs.

2015
00:51:22.780 --> 00:51:23.130
Yeah,

2016
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:24.030
yeah.

2017
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:24.940
And

2018
00:51:25.120 --> 00:51:29.720
a lot of the jobs that AI can automate are the jobs that nobody wants to do.

2019
00:51:30.120 --> 00:51:32.740
People dress up in hazmat suits and go to toxic

2020
00:51:33.040 --> 00:51:33.910
waste dumps.

2021
00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:35.090
It's a legal risk.

2022
00:51:35.260 --> 00:51:36.170
Nobody wants to do it.

2023
00:51:36.260 --> 00:51:36.970
AI can,

2024
00:51:37.100 --> 00:51:38.610
you can have that robot in there,

2025
00:51:38.860 --> 00:51:38.930
yeah,

2026
00:51:39.060 --> 00:51:39.170
yeah,

2027
00:51:39.540 --> 00:51:40.610
get that drone in there.

2028
00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:42.850
The other thing kind of related to other,

2029
00:51:42.980 --> 00:51:43.210
I mean,

2030
00:51:43.260 --> 00:51:44.810
all your four points are kind of related,

2031
00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:45.200
but

2032
00:51:45.460 --> 00:51:47.530
productivity gains come later.

2033
00:51:47.700 --> 00:51:50.160
We don't know what those productivity gains are going to be.

2034
00:51:50.660 --> 00:51:52.680
So the new jobs that come through,

2035
00:51:52.900 --> 00:51:55.250
we don't know what those are going to look like yet.

2036
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:55.560
You know,

2037
00:51:55.620 --> 00:51:55.760
the,

2038
00:51:55.890 --> 00:51:58.010
the End of Work is a book you're familiar with,

2039
00:51:58.170 --> 00:51:58.400
right?

2040
00:51:58.730 --> 00:52:01.150
But there was more office work that was created

2041
00:52:01.170 --> 00:52:03.920
through automation and internet that had existed before.

2042
00:52:04.010 --> 00:52:04.640
And the last point,

2043
00:52:04.700 --> 00:52:06.220
and then I'm just interested in your thoughts,

2044
00:52:06.330 --> 00:52:09.050
I would really like it if we stopped focusing on growth,

2045
00:52:09.290 --> 00:52:09.520
you know,

2046
00:52:09.690 --> 00:52:13.470
focus more on growth happiness products like Bhutan does.

2047
00:52:13.730 --> 00:52:16.990
And if you look at pictures of John Rockefeller and Um,

2048
00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:19.190
Gy and even Elon Musk,

2049
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.330
they don't look like happy individuals.

2050
00:52:21.560 --> 00:52:24.000
So if our basic survival needs are taken care of,

2051
00:52:24.120 --> 00:52:26.100
we can focus on work that is meaningful,

2052
00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:28.830
and they'll probably be more productive for the economy as well.

2053
00:52:29.080 --> 00:52:29.470
Jason,

2054
00:52:29.640 --> 00:52:29.830
um,

2055
00:52:30.080 --> 00:52:31.110
I love where you're going with this,

2056
00:52:31.200 --> 00:52:31.850
so check it out.

2057
00:52:32.120 --> 00:52:34.280
American GDP as we're sitting together

2058
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:37.380
is around $84,000 per person.

2059
00:52:38.060 --> 00:52:39.000
And AI,

2060
00:52:39.100 --> 00:52:40.550
no matter what anyone thinks,

2061
00:52:40.620 --> 00:52:41.360
is going to,

2062
00:52:41.580 --> 00:52:41.690
uh,

2063
00:52:41.900 --> 00:52:43.000
have that number go up

2064
00:52:43.180 --> 00:52:45.250
substantially over the coming seasons.

2065
00:52:45.340 --> 00:52:46.490
I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.

2066
00:52:46.560 --> 00:52:46.690
I mean,

2067
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:48.280
you guys are all AI optimists.

2068
00:52:48.860 --> 00:52:49.240
So,

2069
00:52:49.540 --> 00:52:51.350
so let's say that number goes to,

2070
00:52:51.650 --> 00:52:51.850
um,

2071
00:52:51.980 --> 00:52:53.050
100,000 a head.

2072
00:52:53.220 --> 00:52:53.400
Heck,

2073
00:52:53.420 --> 00:52:53.970
you could even go.

2074
00:52:54.120 --> 00:52:54.300
Further,

2075
00:52:54.430 --> 00:52:56.080
like $120,000 a head.

2076
00:52:56.470 --> 00:52:57.610
At what point

2077
00:52:57.790 --> 00:52:59.140
do you start looking around and saying,

2078
00:52:59.190 --> 00:52:59.700
you know what,

2079
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.050
we should distribute some of that value to

2080
00:53:02.270 --> 00:53:02.670
like the,

2081
00:53:02.830 --> 00:53:03.300
the mom,

2082
00:53:03.430 --> 00:53:03.750
the,

2083
00:53:03.950 --> 00:53:04.060
uh,

2084
00:53:04.190 --> 00:53:05.170
displaced worker,

2085
00:53:05.190 --> 00:53:06.340
or the non-displaced worker,

2086
00:53:06.430 --> 00:53:08.090
like the guy who's in the

2087
00:53:08.350 --> 00:53:09.890
one third of the

2088
00:53:10.590 --> 00:53:14.010
men in America who aren't attached to the workforce in any way.

2089
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:14.630
Uh,

2090
00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:16.090
and in my opinion,

2091
00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:17.670
the sooner we do this,

2092
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:18.550
the better.

2093
00:53:18.720 --> 00:53:18.830
Uh,

2094
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.090
and I compare civilization

2095
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:22.800
to toothpaste in a tube

2096
00:53:23.160 --> 00:53:25.070
where like after you squeeze it out of the tube,

2097
00:53:25.170 --> 00:53:26.300
you can't get it back in.

2098
00:53:27.040 --> 00:53:28.580
There's something called trust

2099
00:53:29.220 --> 00:53:30.280
and as trust,

2100
00:53:30.530 --> 00:53:30.870
uh,

2101
00:53:31.250 --> 00:53:33.180
corrodes and deteriorates,

2102
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:33.670
um,

2103
00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:35.090
we start to,

2104
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:35.480
um,

2105
00:53:35.720 --> 00:53:36.780
turn on each other,

2106
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:37.110
uh,

2107
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:38.310
and get nasty,

2108
00:53:38.640 --> 00:53:38.650
uh,

2109
00:53:38.800 --> 00:53:39.790
and more scarcity-minded.

2110
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:40.190
So the,

2111
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:40.510
the,

2112
00:53:40.640 --> 00:53:41.290
the two.

2113
00:53:41.730 --> 00:53:42.300
Um,

2114
00:53:42.640 --> 00:53:43.300
sides of the,

2115
00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:43.630
uh,

2116
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.830
human psyche

2117
00:53:45.160 --> 00:53:46.710
are scarcity and abundance,

2118
00:53:47.160 --> 00:53:52.070
and right now scarcity is increasingly winning in a country where 57% of Americans

2119
00:53:52.070 --> 00:53:55.580
are paycheck to paycheck and they don't have $200 or $500 in savings.

2120
00:53:55.880 --> 00:53:56.850
So the only

2121
00:53:57.040 --> 00:53:58.430
silver lining in this era,

2122
00:53:58.450 --> 00:53:58.950
in my opinion,

2123
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:02.060
is that AI is going to generate enough value where you can actually try and,

2124
00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:02.670
um,

2125
00:54:02.720 --> 00:54:04.510
spread the value and push us to abundance.

2126
00:54:04.570 --> 00:54:05.500
So my question is,

2127
00:54:05.520 --> 00:54:06.340
in this

2128
00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:08.330
voted out for the majority.

2129
00:54:08.600 --> 00:54:09.170
Such a pleasure.

2130
00:54:10.240 --> 00:54:10.790
Arovi.

2131
00:54:11.080 --> 00:54:11.550
AI.

2132
00:54:12.410 --> 00:54:13.850
If you'd like to be the next debater,

2133
00:54:14.020 --> 00:54:17.370
please get to the chair in 321.

2134
00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:20.530
Look at that,

2135
00:54:20.550 --> 00:54:20.770
Damien,

2136
00:54:20.830 --> 00:54:21.860
you won that one easily.

2137
00:54:21.910 --> 00:54:22.210
Yeah.

2138
00:54:22.710 --> 00:54:24.610
So basically with universal basic income,

2139
00:54:24.670 --> 00:54:25.980
take after Damian Lillard,

2140
00:54:26.150 --> 00:54:26.560
yeah,

2141
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:27.430
yeah.

2142
00:54:28.350 --> 00:54:31.050
First thing with universal basic income that I would say is

2143
00:54:31.310 --> 00:54:33.420
it doesn't seem mathematically feasible

2144
00:54:33.670 --> 00:54:34.490
if you were to give,

2145
00:54:34.640 --> 00:54:37.460
let's say 200 million Americans $1000 each,

2146
00:54:37.550 --> 00:54:37.740
uh,

2147
00:54:37.910 --> 00:54:38.650
that would be,

2148
00:54:38.900 --> 00:54:38.950
uh,

2149
00:54:39.070 --> 00:54:40.300
if you do that every 12,

2150
00:54:40.430 --> 00:54:41.100
every month,

2151
00:54:41.350 --> 00:54:45.180
that would be $2 trillion out of our $4 trillion federal tax revenue,

2152
00:54:45.350 --> 00:54:45.650
so.

2153
00:54:46.370 --> 00:54:47.350
Using that

2154
00:54:47.570 --> 00:54:50.560
just roughly that would take away from things like Social Security,

2155
00:54:50.610 --> 00:54:51.750
that would take away from

2156
00:54:51.970 --> 00:54:54.280
uh spending in places that we really need

2157
00:54:54.530 --> 00:54:55.630
and it's

2158
00:54:55.930 --> 00:54:58.400
just not mathematically feasible and not only that,

2159
00:54:58.610 --> 00:54:59.910
but I believe more in a

2160
00:55:00.120 --> 00:55:02.390
universal basic services model where

2161
00:55:02.730 --> 00:55:05.400
instead of an income that's directly given to people,

2162
00:55:05.450 --> 00:55:05.880
it's

2163
00:55:06.130 --> 00:55:08.140
put into things like infrastructure,

2164
00:55:08.330 --> 00:55:09.200
high-speed rail,

2165
00:55:09.370 --> 00:55:09.750
um.

2166
00:55:10.150 --> 00:55:10.370
You know,

2167
00:55:10.540 --> 00:55:12.680
climate crisis prediction for the government and

2168
00:55:12.980 --> 00:55:15.410
sovereign wealth funds even can also contribute to those things.

2169
00:55:15.460 --> 00:55:16.360
I'd say that's why,

2170
00:55:16.660 --> 00:55:16.850
you know,

2171
00:55:17.020 --> 00:55:19.280
universal basic income doesn't seem feasible

2172
00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:19.700
to me.

2173
00:55:19.900 --> 00:55:20.290
Damien,

2174
00:55:20.420 --> 00:55:20.490
I,

2175
00:55:20.620 --> 00:55:23.130
I appreciate both of these points a great deal.

2176
00:55:23.500 --> 00:55:24.290
So first,

2177
00:55:24.540 --> 00:55:27.170
when someone says universal basic services,

2178
00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:28.170
I'm not opposed to it at all.

2179
00:55:28.710 --> 00:55:29.700
Like if someone's like,

2180
00:55:29.790 --> 00:55:30.260
hey,

2181
00:55:30.510 --> 00:55:32.050
we're going to invest in,

2182
00:55:32.410 --> 00:55:32.580
uh,

2183
00:55:32.630 --> 00:55:33.250
you know,

2184
00:55:33.850 --> 00:55:34.260
education,

2185
00:55:34.470 --> 00:55:35.010
housing,

2186
00:55:35.150 --> 00:55:35.700
healthcare,

2187
00:55:35.870 --> 00:55:36.620
transportation,

2188
00:55:36.710 --> 00:55:37.850
like all those things,

2189
00:55:38.350 --> 00:55:39.180
sounds great to me.

2190
00:55:39.350 --> 00:55:41.300
One issue though in America is we're really bad

2191
00:55:41.300 --> 00:55:44.390
at actually delivering value along any of those dimensions,

2192
00:55:44.470 --> 00:55:46.300
and it's often not a monetary thing.

2193
00:55:46.820 --> 00:55:48.160
I live in New York City

2194
00:55:48.340 --> 00:55:48.900
and

2195
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:50.450
as a community,

2196
00:55:50.580 --> 00:55:51.870
New York City is spending

2197
00:55:52.140 --> 00:55:55.270
something like $40,000 per student in the school system,

2198
00:55:55.380 --> 00:55:56.730
which means if you had 30 students,

2199
00:55:56.780 --> 00:55:58.210
you're spending $1.2 million

2200
00:55:58.420 --> 00:56:00.590
which must mean that our kids are getting a great education,

2201
00:56:00.660 --> 00:56:00.770
right?

2202
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:00.970
Like,

2203
00:56:01.060 --> 00:56:01.180
no,

2204
00:56:01.200 --> 00:56:01.560
they're not.

2205
00:56:01.580 --> 00:56:02.510
Like their results are terrible.

2206
00:56:02.620 --> 00:56:03.170
So,

2207
00:56:03.620 --> 00:56:03.920
so,

2208
00:56:04.060 --> 00:56:05.290
so one of the things that's happening.

2209
00:56:05.770 --> 00:56:08.360
Is that if someone says universal basic services,

2210
00:56:08.450 --> 00:56:08.670
what,

2211
00:56:08.690 --> 00:56:10.430
what that often is

2212
00:56:10.570 --> 00:56:13.110
um interposing between the value and the people

2213
00:56:13.290 --> 00:56:15.750
is these dysfunctional institutions that then say like,

2214
00:56:15.770 --> 00:56:15.920
no,

2215
00:56:16.040 --> 00:56:16.160
no,

2216
00:56:16.250 --> 00:56:17.560
we'll distribute the goods

2217
00:56:17.730 --> 00:56:19.090
and then the goods get stuck.

2218
00:56:19.490 --> 00:56:19.770
So that,

2219
00:56:19.790 --> 00:56:23.320
that's one thing like I'm not against universal basic services if we were good at it.

2220
00:56:23.730 --> 00:56:23.880
Um,

2221
00:56:24.050 --> 00:56:24.500
but like I,

2222
00:56:24.570 --> 00:56:25.640
I don't think we're great at it.

2223
00:56:25.730 --> 00:56:29.000
The other point I want to address is like the mathematical objection.

2224
00:56:29.420 --> 00:56:29.610
Um,

2225
00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:30.330
to UBI,

2226
00:56:30.460 --> 00:56:33.290
so GDP per head is 84,000 a head.

2227
00:56:33.340 --> 00:56:34.690
It's gonna go to 100,000 a head.

2228
00:56:34.820 --> 00:56:34.930
Like,

2229
00:56:35.140 --> 00:56:36.570
so at some point you have to look around and say,

2230
00:56:36.620 --> 00:56:36.750
OK,

2231
00:56:36.860 --> 00:56:37.850
where's the value going

2232
00:56:38.100 --> 00:56:38.200
now?

2233
00:56:38.220 --> 00:56:40.100
You are 100% correct about the,

2234
00:56:40.260 --> 00:56:42.320
the scope and the magnitude of the current federal budget,

2235
00:56:42.460 --> 00:56:43.040
and there's a,

2236
00:56:43.100 --> 00:56:43.770
a deficit,

2237
00:56:43.940 --> 00:56:45.450
and I'm not unmindful of these things.

2238
00:56:45.620 --> 00:56:49.490
Elon Musk has said that a combination of AI and robotics are going to produce so much.

2239
00:56:49.620 --> 00:56:50.110
Growth

2240
00:56:50.290 --> 00:56:53.790
and so much value that some of the concerns we're talking about

2241
00:56:54.010 --> 00:56:57.470
um are going to become less important in the coming years

2242
00:56:57.730 --> 00:57:00.350
um and I think directionally he's correct in that

2243
00:57:00.350 --> 00:57:02.910
if you have AI and robots doing enough work

2244
00:57:03.050 --> 00:57:05.320
there's gonna be enough top line value to go around.

2245
00:57:05.370 --> 00:57:07.630
The question is how does the top line value actually

2246
00:57:07.780 --> 00:57:09.600
filter to the average person.

2247
00:57:10.020 --> 00:57:12.330
But if you were to want to try and address this,

2248
00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:13.610
so in terms of like the,

2249
00:57:13.660 --> 00:57:14.580
the cost of the UBI,

2250
00:57:14.600 --> 00:57:15.820
I just want to make a few points.

2251
00:57:16.060 --> 00:57:17.000
Number 1 is

2252
00:57:17.300 --> 00:57:20.450
about half of Americans are currently receiving government benefits in some form,

2253
00:57:20.580 --> 00:57:22.570
so it's not dollar for dollar necessarily that

2254
00:57:22.570 --> 00:57:24.440
all of the money you're talking about is,

2255
00:57:24.620 --> 00:57:25.530
is new spend.

2256
00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:26.330
Number 2,

2257
00:57:26.420 --> 00:57:28.090
you get a lot of the value back

2258
00:57:28.340 --> 00:57:30.330
in better health outcomes,

2259
00:57:30.650 --> 00:57:31.610
education outcomes,

2260
00:57:31.740 --> 00:57:32.650
homelessness,

2261
00:57:32.980 --> 00:57:33.090
uh,

2262
00:57:33.180 --> 00:57:34.130
incarceration.

2263
00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:36.620
Like if someone hits our institutions,

2264
00:57:36.860 --> 00:57:38.180
it's extraordinarily costly,

2265
00:57:38.220 --> 00:57:39.410
and I think everyone knows what I'm talking about.

2266
00:57:40.150 --> 00:57:42.380
So if you invest it in people,

2267
00:57:42.510 --> 00:57:44.140
you end up getting a lot of the money back and you know,

2268
00:57:44.160 --> 00:57:46.380
one of the biggest returns would be entrepreneurship

2269
00:57:46.750 --> 00:57:50.170
because folks who are getting a certain amount of money into their hands

2270
00:57:50.350 --> 00:57:50.860
would then say,

2271
00:57:50.910 --> 00:57:51.180
OK,

2272
00:57:51.310 --> 00:57:54.570
like maybe I can actually take a risk and have uh something

2273
00:57:54.810 --> 00:57:55.730
of a cushion.

2274
00:57:55.990 --> 00:57:56.140
Um,

2275
00:57:56.310 --> 00:57:56.700
absolutely,

2276
00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:57.140
absolutely,

2277
00:57:57.190 --> 00:57:57.420
and I,

2278
00:57:57.470 --> 00:57:58.590
and I certainly agree with you,

2279
00:57:58.630 --> 00:58:01.610
and I think the core of the issue that we're getting to is really

2280
00:58:01.870 --> 00:58:05.140
we're having less of a discussion about universal basic income and

2281
00:58:05.140 --> 00:58:09.020
more about how do we regulate wealth distribution throughout the country.

2282
00:58:09.500 --> 00:58:12.250
And there's more options than universal basic income,

2283
00:58:12.300 --> 00:58:13.240
and I think that

2284
00:58:13.460 --> 00:58:15.810
it's oftentimes it's used as a scapegoat.

2285
00:58:15.860 --> 00:58:17.610
There's like the cultural hegemony,

2286
00:58:17.700 --> 00:58:18.170
hegemony,

2287
00:58:18.260 --> 00:58:18.450
whatever,

2288
00:58:18.540 --> 00:58:19.450
however you pronounce it.

2289
00:58:19.750 --> 00:58:20.040
Um,

2290
00:58:20.240 --> 00:58:20.770
where

2291
00:58:20.990 --> 00:58:22.010
that's part of like

2292
00:58:22.190 --> 00:58:26.330
what keeps us frustrated and distracted and unable to address these issues is

2293
00:58:26.590 --> 00:58:26.940
throwing up.

2294
00:58:27.030 --> 00:58:27.140
Well,

2295
00:58:27.190 --> 00:58:27.530
we need,

2296
00:58:27.630 --> 00:58:27.820
um,

2297
00:58:27.950 --> 00:58:28.060
you know,

2298
00:58:28.110 --> 00:58:31.180
it's a false dichotomy like the universal basic income versus,

2299
00:58:31.430 --> 00:58:31.660
uh,

2300
00:58:31.870 --> 00:58:32.060
you know,

2301
00:58:32.230 --> 00:58:33.090
something else.

2302
00:58:33.270 --> 00:58:34.370
There are many options.

2303
00:58:34.510 --> 00:58:34.720
Yeah,

2304
00:58:34.870 --> 00:58:35.220
so I,

2305
00:58:35.310 --> 00:58:35.880
I just want

2306
00:58:36.670 --> 00:58:37.260
that by the majority,

2307
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:37.980
but I'll let you finish your,

2308
00:58:38.070 --> 00:58:38.140
yeah,

2309
00:58:38.230 --> 00:58:38.300
yeah,

2310
00:58:38.650 --> 00:58:38.820
let's say,

2311
00:58:38.950 --> 00:58:39.500
say two things.

2312
00:58:39.590 --> 00:58:43.450
So if this money were to come into the hands of the average American household,

2313
00:58:43.670 --> 00:58:45.260
virtually all of it would get spent.

2314
00:58:45.700 --> 00:58:48.090
And circulated at local businesses,

2315
00:58:48.170 --> 00:58:48.410
uh,

2316
00:58:48.610 --> 00:58:49.890
throughout their community.

2317
00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:52.130
And so the Roosevelt Institute did a study as to

2318
00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:55.900
what universal basic income of approximately $1000 a month a head

2319
00:58:56.210 --> 00:58:56.760
would do,

2320
00:58:56.780 --> 00:58:57.420
and it would

2321
00:58:57.850 --> 00:58:59.460
increase the size of the economy

2322
00:58:59.660 --> 00:59:00.840
in perpetuity

2323
00:59:01.050 --> 00:59:02.450
by about 12%,

2324
00:59:02.620 --> 00:59:02.770
uh,

2325
00:59:02.860 --> 00:59:03.760
and create,

2326
00:59:04.040 --> 00:59:04.510
um,

2327
00:59:04.740 --> 00:59:05.570
hundreds of thousands,

2328
00:59:05.620 --> 00:59:07.360
even millions of new jobs because again,

2329
00:59:07.390 --> 00:59:08.540
like every local restaurant,

2330
00:59:08.620 --> 00:59:09.680
every local garage,

2331
00:59:09.820 --> 00:59:10.720
every local like,

2332
00:59:10.740 --> 00:59:11.080
uh,

2333
00:59:11.490 --> 00:59:11.780
Um,

2334
00:59:11.970 --> 00:59:12.280
you know,

2335
00:59:12.530 --> 00:59:13.280
tutoring service,

2336
00:59:13.370 --> 00:59:14.670
like all I would have

2337
00:59:14.930 --> 00:59:15.430
more

2338
00:59:15.570 --> 00:59:16.280
value

2339
00:59:16.490 --> 00:59:18.320
and so the money doesn't disappear,

2340
00:59:18.530 --> 00:59:18.720
it,

2341
00:59:18.810 --> 00:59:20.080
it stays in the community.

2342
00:59:20.170 --> 00:59:22.350
The second thing is that America is the only

2343
00:59:22.370 --> 00:59:24.560
major industrialized economy and one of the only.

2344
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:25.270
Uh,

2345
00:59:25.520 --> 00:59:28.310
countries in the world that doesn't have something called a value added tax

2346
00:59:28.560 --> 00:59:30.870
in large part because our companies are expert at

2347
00:59:30.870 --> 00:59:32.880
making sure they don't pay a lot of taxes,

2348
00:59:33.200 --> 00:59:33.550
so the,

2349
00:59:33.600 --> 00:59:35.590
the major problem we're having in American life

2350
00:59:35.590 --> 00:59:37.490
is that all this value is getting generated

2351
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:38.270
and,

2352
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:38.580
uh,

2353
00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:39.660
the big winners can,

2354
00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:39.910
uh,

2355
00:59:40.160 --> 00:59:41.740
essentially just gain their way out of it.

2356
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:43.990
And so if you solve for that,

2357
00:59:44.120 --> 00:59:47.630
then all of a sudden the false scarcity in my opinion is false because.

2358
00:59:47.710 --> 00:59:48.290
We are the richest,

2359
00:59:48.340 --> 00:59:50.420
most advanced society in the history of the world,

2360
00:59:50.810 --> 00:59:52.720
economy of $31 trillion a year.

2361
00:59:52.900 --> 00:59:54.420
So if someone pleads poverty

2362
00:59:54.660 --> 00:59:56.010
in terms of our ability to,

2363
00:59:56.180 --> 00:59:58.400
to do something like a UBI that would again

2364
00:59:58.640 --> 00:59:59.560
grow the economy,

2365
00:59:59.700 --> 00:59:59.810
uh,

2366
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:02.300
in perpetuity and it would be in our hands,

2367
01:00:02.380 --> 01:00:03.170
I'd look at it and be like,

2368
01:00:03.290 --> 01:00:03.570
look,

2369
01:00:03.930 --> 01:00:05.290
like mathematically you're wrong,

2370
01:00:05.420 --> 01:00:05.920
but also,

2371
01:00:06.220 --> 01:00:06.290
uh,

2372
01:00:06.460 --> 01:00:08.810
we spent $4 trillion on the financial bailout.

2373
01:00:08.900 --> 01:00:10.320
We spent $4 trillion.

2374
01:00:10.540 --> 01:00:11.320
On COVID,

2375
01:00:11.540 --> 01:00:12.130
like when,

2376
01:00:12.220 --> 01:00:13.170
whenever there's like,

2377
01:00:13.300 --> 01:00:13.720
frankly,

2378
01:00:13.740 --> 01:00:15.370
like a corporate need,

2379
01:00:15.860 --> 01:00:16.780
we find the money.

2380
01:00:17.100 --> 01:00:17.730
You know what I mean?

2381
01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:17.940
And,

2382
01:00:18.020 --> 01:00:18.190
and,

2383
01:00:18.220 --> 01:00:19.280
and I would say that

2384
01:00:19.540 --> 01:00:20.430
at this point,

2385
01:00:20.660 --> 01:00:20.730
uh,

2386
01:00:20.820 --> 01:00:22.730
the human need is just as clear.

2387
01:00:23.610 --> 01:00:24.200
I,

2388
01:00:24.260 --> 01:00:24.340
I agree.

2389
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:25.000
We do have to stop here.

2390
01:00:25.050 --> 01:00:25.550
Thank you.

2391
01:00:26.900 --> 01:00:27.220
Thank you.

2392
01:00:27.310 --> 01:00:27.690
Appreciate it.

2393
01:00:28.580 --> 01:00:30.850
321.

2394
01:00:32.620 --> 01:00:33.010
Hey there.

2395
01:00:33.130 --> 01:00:33.570
Hello,

2396
01:00:33.700 --> 01:00:34.250
how are you?

2397
01:00:34.380 --> 01:00:34.700
How are you?

2398
01:00:34.790 --> 01:00:35.490
It's great to meet you.

2399
01:00:35.580 --> 01:00:35.940
Good.

2400
01:00:36.220 --> 01:00:36.760
I'm doing good.

2401
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:38.050
I'll tell you a little bit about myself.

2402
01:00:38.150 --> 01:00:38.450
Please do.

2403
01:00:38.620 --> 01:00:39.170
My name's Sean.

2404
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:41.050
I'm 41 year old single father.

2405
01:00:41.140 --> 01:00:43.250
I was in an industry that you touched on before,

2406
01:00:43.420 --> 01:00:44.060
such as insurance,

2407
01:00:44.180 --> 01:00:45.640
so I was an underwriting analyst for,

2408
01:00:45.740 --> 01:00:45.850
uh,

2409
01:00:45.980 --> 01:00:46.680
an insurance company.

2410
01:00:46.740 --> 01:00:47.930
I'm starting a little startup,

2411
01:00:48.050 --> 01:00:48.290
um,

2412
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:51.380
and I also run a video game community for dads who play video games.

2413
01:00:51.410 --> 01:00:52.170
It's kind of what I do.

2414
01:00:52.290 --> 01:00:52.970
I'm a gamer,

2415
01:00:53.500 --> 01:00:53.760
but.

2416
01:00:53.870 --> 01:00:54.700
Touching on UBI,

2417
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:56.670
your statement assumes that

2418
01:00:56.990 --> 01:00:58.980
America doesn't already need UBI,

2419
01:00:59.150 --> 01:01:02.220
which I would assume you agree that we do need UBI

2420
01:01:02.510 --> 01:01:02.820
already.

2421
01:01:02.910 --> 01:01:03.100
I mean,

2422
01:01:03.150 --> 01:01:03.180
I,

2423
01:01:03.350 --> 01:01:05.420
I did campaign on UBI now,

2424
01:01:05.590 --> 01:01:05.820
um,

2425
01:01:06.070 --> 01:01:06.820
6 years ago,

2426
01:01:06.990 --> 01:01:08.440
so I thought we needed it then,

2427
01:01:08.670 --> 01:01:10.500
and I wish we had implemented it.

2428
01:01:10.590 --> 01:01:11.930
I wish that I had

2429
01:01:12.270 --> 01:01:13.740
won and gotten my way,

2430
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:14.090
and then,

2431
01:01:14.190 --> 01:01:14.260
uh,

2432
01:01:14.430 --> 01:01:14.970
you know.

2433
01:01:15.170 --> 01:01:16.400
We could be doing this from the White House.

2434
01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:16.690
Yeah,

2435
01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:16.990
no,

2436
01:01:17.080 --> 01:01:17.440
of course,

2437
01:01:17.520 --> 01:01:19.390
and I flew into LA and the first thing,

2438
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:20.560
and you could see it on the streets,

2439
01:01:20.680 --> 01:01:21.310
no offense to LA,

2440
01:01:21.360 --> 01:01:23.140
but you can see it on the streets that

2441
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:24.580
UBI is needed.

2442
01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:27.660
Well before AI people were losing their jobs or

2443
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:28.370
even

2444
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.830
people who were working full time weren't able to afford their rent

2445
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:31.860
and were going homeless,

2446
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:32.860
and it's just,

2447
01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:34.350
it's prominent everywhere.

2448
01:01:34.530 --> 01:01:34.710
Sean,

2449
01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:35.550
I love this so much.

2450
01:01:35.630 --> 01:01:35.950
You're like,

2451
01:01:36.000 --> 01:01:36.350
hey.

2452
01:01:36.950 --> 01:01:39.820
It's not universal basic income will become necessary.

2453
01:01:39.990 --> 01:01:42.030
It's that it is necessary and it was necessary.

2454
01:01:42.230 --> 01:01:42.300
Yeah,

2455
01:01:42.350 --> 01:01:44.460
it's already necessary and yes,

2456
01:01:46.070 --> 01:01:46.900
yeah,

2457
01:01:47.190 --> 01:01:48.320
I agree.

2458
01:01:49.750 --> 01:01:51.500
And I also don't agree with some of the

2459
01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:54.580
other statements that we can't find funding for it because

2460
01:01:54.910 --> 01:01:57.220
because we did with the stimulus checks in 2020,

2461
01:01:57.250 --> 01:01:58.780
we did with the stimulus checks in 2021.

2462
01:01:58.910 --> 01:01:59.630
So we can put

2463
01:02:00.030 --> 01:02:00.380
the money,

2464
01:02:00.550 --> 01:02:01.050
the money.

2465
01:02:01.980 --> 01:02:02.870
The money's there,

2466
01:02:03.370 --> 01:02:03.880
but

2467
01:02:05.410 --> 01:02:06.280
we should be able to do this.

2468
01:02:06.450 --> 01:02:07.240
We should be able to do

2469
01:02:07.380 --> 01:02:07.410
it.

2470
01:02:07.610 --> 01:02:07.660
Yeah,

2471
01:02:07.770 --> 01:02:08.550
we should be able to do it.

2472
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:09.120
We're gonna,

2473
01:02:09.490 --> 01:02:09.760
I think I

2474
01:02:09.910 --> 01:02:10.830
already converted somebody.

2475
01:02:12.850 --> 01:02:13.160
I am,

2476
01:02:13.290 --> 01:02:13.480
I,

2477
01:02:13.610 --> 01:02:14.660
I am on your side.

2478
01:02:15.010 --> 01:02:15.280
Thank you.

2479
01:02:15.330 --> 01:02:16.480
It's even a round of applause.

2480
01:02:16.570 --> 01:02:17.250
I'm with it.

2481
01:02:18.110 --> 01:02:18.580
I'm with it,

2482
01:02:18.630 --> 01:02:19.020
man.

2483
01:02:19.150 --> 01:02:20.940
I see the need every day on the street too,

2484
01:02:21.030 --> 01:02:22.620
not just here in LA but everywhere,

2485
01:02:22.720 --> 01:02:23.060
honestly,

2486
01:02:23.110 --> 01:02:24.130
it's like you go around.

2487
01:02:24.430 --> 01:02:25.820
If you'd like to be the next debater,

2488
01:02:25.950 --> 01:02:29.230
please get to the chair in 321.

2489
01:02:31.110 --> 01:02:31.360
Hey

2490
01:02:31.710 --> 01:02:32.390
back.

2491
01:02:32.750 --> 01:02:37.080
So I want to go back to the statistic that the gentleman raised before

2492
01:02:37.430 --> 01:02:40.090
about the World Economic Forum report,

2493
01:02:40.470 --> 01:02:40.700
um,

2494
01:02:40.830 --> 01:02:42.410
that said we were gonna have,

2495
01:02:42.510 --> 01:02:42.840
uh,

2496
01:02:42.910 --> 01:02:44.500
170 million

2497
01:02:44.950 --> 01:02:47.110
jobs created by 2030.

2498
01:02:47.550 --> 01:02:48.490
So that,

2499
01:02:48.670 --> 01:02:48.820
uh,

2500
01:02:49.110 --> 01:02:49.540
report,

2501
01:02:49.870 --> 01:02:50.020
uh,

2502
01:02:50.150 --> 01:02:51.660
mentioned all industries.

2503
01:02:51.870 --> 01:02:53.960
So it was across technology,

2504
01:02:54.190 --> 01:02:55.860
it was across healthcare,

2505
01:02:55.990 --> 01:02:57.860
it was across education.

2506
01:02:58.340 --> 01:02:59.490
So based on that,

2507
01:02:59.580 --> 01:03:03.400
it's that disproportion of certain industries

2508
01:03:03.820 --> 01:03:05.450
not having enough jobs

2509
01:03:05.660 --> 01:03:07.410
are actually included in that report,

2510
01:03:07.580 --> 01:03:10.370
so they will have enough jobs based on that report.

2511
01:03:11.170 --> 01:03:13.320
Another thing I want to point out is that there's a study,

2512
01:03:13.370 --> 01:03:15.720
and I believe it's from PWC,

2513
01:03:16.570 --> 01:03:20.080
and they're seeing that when it comes to job postings,

2514
01:03:20.330 --> 01:03:24.220
AI jobs are being reported 4 times higher

2515
01:03:24.370 --> 01:03:26.720
postings than traditional jobs,

2516
01:03:26.970 --> 01:03:28.760
so the jobs are there,

2517
01:03:29.130 --> 01:03:29.950
it's just that.

2518
01:03:30.180 --> 01:03:31.950
There's a resistance to

2519
01:03:32.100 --> 01:03:33.130
adapting to them,

2520
01:03:33.220 --> 01:03:35.570
so we're seeing more AI type jobs.

2521
01:03:35.860 --> 01:03:39.450
There isn't necessarily going to be a decrease in jobs,

2522
01:03:39.660 --> 01:03:39.730
right,

2523
01:03:39.860 --> 01:03:42.630
which will eliminate the need for the universal basic income.

2524
01:03:42.740 --> 01:03:46.230
It's just that transition of the new types of jobs that are there,

2525
01:03:46.300 --> 01:03:48.050
which happens in every single,

2526
01:03:48.340 --> 01:03:48.960
you know,

2527
01:03:49.550 --> 01:03:51.200
We talked about the industrial revolution,

2528
01:03:51.290 --> 01:03:52.760
even when tractors were created,

2529
01:03:52.780 --> 01:03:54.680
that replaced a whole bunch of agricultural

2530
01:03:54.680 --> 01:03:56.580
workers and those workers had to retrain,

2531
01:03:56.890 --> 01:03:58.000
learn how to drive tractors.

2532
01:03:58.090 --> 01:03:58.430
So

2533
01:03:59.130 --> 01:04:01.240
that I don't believe that universal basic income

2534
01:04:01.240 --> 01:04:02.640
is going to be something that happens,

2535
01:04:02.730 --> 01:04:02.920
um,

2536
01:04:03.040 --> 01:04:05.240
because it's also been talked about in history and it's never happened.

2537
01:04:06.410 --> 01:04:06.560
Wow,

2538
01:04:06.690 --> 01:04:08.480
so there are a couple of different pieces there.

2539
01:04:11.140 --> 01:04:13.320
I was itching to say it all this time.

2540
01:04:13.540 --> 01:04:15.250
So one is the need based on jobs.

2541
01:04:15.300 --> 01:04:15.880
The other is,

2542
01:04:16.020 --> 01:04:16.130
uh,

2543
01:04:16.260 --> 01:04:17.780
whether it will happen or not.

2544
01:04:17.860 --> 01:04:20.800
So I actually attended that World Economic Forum event,

2545
01:04:20.900 --> 01:04:21.890
and when they said like,

2546
01:04:22.020 --> 01:04:22.170
hey,

2547
01:04:22.220 --> 01:04:23.400
we're gonna automate away,

2548
01:04:23.740 --> 01:04:23.890
um,

2549
01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:26.190
90 million jobs like over over this period,

2550
01:04:26.300 --> 01:04:26.490
it,

2551
01:04:26.580 --> 01:04:28.050
it seemed like it was a red alert.

2552
01:04:28.100 --> 01:04:29.050
Like there was like a freak out.

2553
01:04:29.140 --> 01:04:29.370
They're like,

2554
01:04:29.420 --> 01:04:29.970
what are we gonna do?

2555
01:04:30.020 --> 01:04:30.410
And by the way,

2556
01:04:30.500 --> 01:04:32.020
if you look at the global statistics,

2557
01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:34.210
America is somewhere in the middle in terms of the

2558
01:04:34.210 --> 01:04:36.680
proportion of jobs they think are subject to automation.

2559
01:04:36.910 --> 01:04:39.500
But one reason why our jobs will be much more.

2560
01:04:39.660 --> 01:04:41.400
automated is that we're more expensive.

2561
01:04:41.650 --> 01:04:44.960
Like if you have an American in a in a role and you

2562
01:04:44.960 --> 01:04:47.830
factor in healthcare costs and payroll tax and all the rest of it,

2563
01:04:47.970 --> 01:04:49.640
the incentive to get rid of us is higher than

2564
01:04:49.640 --> 01:04:52.000
if you go to some other countries where those expenses,

2565
01:04:52.090 --> 01:04:52.200
like,

2566
01:04:52.250 --> 01:04:52.450
you know,

2567
01:04:52.490 --> 01:04:54.540
your hourly rates lower and the rest of it.

2568
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:56.190
So I certainly

2569
01:04:56.380 --> 01:04:57.200
was there,

2570
01:04:57.530 --> 01:04:59.130
read that report and the rest of it,

2571
01:04:59.250 --> 01:05:00.200
and it did not say like,

2572
01:05:00.290 --> 01:05:00.440
hey,

2573
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:01.200
it's going to be fine.

2574
01:05:01.290 --> 01:05:02.560
The AI jobs are going to save us.

2575
01:05:02.650 --> 01:05:03.670
Like that was not the

2576
01:05:03.830 --> 01:05:04.200
message.

2577
01:05:04.810 --> 01:05:06.670
There's a transition.

2578
01:05:06.810 --> 01:05:07.720
I agree with that part.

2579
01:05:07.810 --> 01:05:08.110
OK.

2580
01:05:08.250 --> 01:05:09.490
The second thing is that even though.

2581
01:05:09.560 --> 01:05:11.810
There are of course going to be new jobs you've created.

2582
01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:15.230
I think they're going to be inappropriate for a lot of the people that need them.

2583
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:15.460
Uh,

2584
01:05:15.560 --> 01:05:16.430
they're going to be some winners.

2585
01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:18.060
They're going to be people that managed to fill

2586
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:19.070
AI roles.

2587
01:05:19.090 --> 01:05:19.470
In my view,

2588
01:05:19.490 --> 01:05:21.610
it's going to be like a relatively modest number,

2589
01:05:21.880 --> 01:05:22.030
um,

2590
01:05:22.120 --> 01:05:23.940
compared to the displaced,

2591
01:05:24.240 --> 01:05:24.470
um,

2592
01:05:24.600 --> 01:05:27.950
and so I think both of those things can be true that there are going to be these,

2593
01:05:27.980 --> 01:05:28.630
these postings.

2594
01:05:28.650 --> 01:05:29.880
And if you look at some of these postings,

2595
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:31.990
I'm gonna say something really nasty and mean to everyone.

2596
01:05:32.520 --> 01:05:34.470
Sometimes the jobs that get posted aren't real jobs.

2597
01:05:34.560 --> 01:05:35.620
I don't know if you all know that.

2598
01:05:36.040 --> 01:05:37.830
Sometimes companies I came from corporate.

2599
01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:38.990
I actually came from corporate.

2600
01:05:40.790 --> 01:05:42.410
Sometimes companies post jobs

2601
01:05:42.510 --> 01:05:43.900
for data collection purposes.

2602
01:05:44.230 --> 01:05:46.890
Sometimes they post jobs to seem like they're healthy.

2603
01:05:47.830 --> 01:05:49.440
Like there are a lot of reasons why companies

2604
01:05:49.670 --> 01:05:50.180
post jobs.

2605
01:05:50.230 --> 01:05:50.670
And so when,

2606
01:05:50.750 --> 01:05:51.330
when you

2607
01:05:51.630 --> 01:05:52.580
apply to jobs,

2608
01:05:52.630 --> 01:05:54.710
a lot of the time there's not gonna be a human that reads your resume.

2609
01:05:54.790 --> 01:05:56.170
I think people have figured all this out.

2610
01:05:56.510 --> 01:05:56.710
Now,

2611
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:59.340
in terms of the need for a universal basic income,

2612
01:05:59.470 --> 01:05:59.620
um,

2613
01:05:59.750 --> 01:06:01.990
one of the things that gets me revved up

2614
01:06:02.150 --> 01:06:04.710
is the fact that so many Americans are struggling,

2615
01:06:04.950 --> 01:06:05.090
uh,

2616
01:06:05.270 --> 01:06:05.980
day to day and,

2617
01:06:06.070 --> 01:06:06.770
and when

2618
01:06:07.010 --> 01:06:07.890
you travel,

2619
01:06:08.070 --> 01:06:08.300
um,

2620
01:06:08.470 --> 01:06:09.340
this country.

2621
01:06:09.680 --> 01:06:09.750
Uh,

2622
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:10.510
you kind of,

2623
01:06:10.720 --> 01:06:10.790
uh,

2624
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:11.140
like,

2625
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:12.790
it's really clear that,

2626
01:06:12.970 --> 01:06:13.270
um,

2627
01:06:13.480 --> 01:06:15.460
the majority of Americans feel like

2628
01:06:15.600 --> 01:06:18.430
they're on the outside looking in of whatever the heck is going on,

2629
01:06:18.600 --> 01:06:18.790
um,

2630
01:06:18.920 --> 01:06:20.670
in AI as evidenced by the,

2631
01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:21.180
the,

2632
01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:21.470
um,

2633
01:06:21.640 --> 01:06:24.630
disapproval of AI being something like 74%.

2634
01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:26.630
It's something like 26% approved,

2635
01:06:26.680 --> 01:06:28.140
74% disapprove,

2636
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:29.840
and that's something that

2637
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:31.870
uh the AI optimists I'm surrounded by

2638
01:06:32.110 --> 01:06:33.590
might hear that number and say,

2639
01:06:33.720 --> 01:06:34.150
OK,

2640
01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:35.580
like we should do something about that,

2641
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:35.950
you know,

2642
01:06:36.000 --> 01:06:39.070
it's like we have to make people feel like they're gonna benefit from AI,

2643
01:06:39.240 --> 01:06:41.510
but most Americans do not feel like they're gonna benefit.

2644
01:06:41.690 --> 01:06:43.630
From AI and I believe that they're correct.

2645
01:06:43.730 --> 01:06:45.870
I think Americans are actually smart and savvy,

2646
01:06:45.890 --> 01:06:46.240
and they're like,

2647
01:06:46.330 --> 01:06:46.520
Yo,

2648
01:06:46.570 --> 01:06:47.640
this does not include me.

2649
01:06:47.730 --> 01:06:49.490
And so until that changes,

2650
01:06:49.610 --> 01:06:50.900
I think the hostilities,

2651
01:06:50.980 --> 01:06:50.990
uh,

2652
01:06:51.170 --> 01:06:51.430
is,

2653
01:06:51.540 --> 01:06:51.840
um,

2654
01:06:52.010 --> 01:06:52.600
going to be there.

2655
01:06:52.890 --> 01:06:54.400
But you can't have you're gonna pause here.

2656
01:06:54.530 --> 01:06:55.240
You've been voted out.

2657
01:06:55.350 --> 01:06:55.760
Thank you so much.

2658
01:06:55.890 --> 01:06:56.920
I had such a good point.

2659
01:06:59.380 --> 01:07:00.650
If you'd like to be the next debater,

2660
01:07:00.790 --> 01:07:04.280
please get to the chair in 321.

2661
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:08.540
Hey there again.

2662
01:07:09.470 --> 01:07:10.260
My name's Jay.

2663
01:07:10.350 --> 01:07:14.820
I am a media personality and I also am a game creator

2664
01:07:14.990 --> 01:07:16.760
slash model for The Sims 4.

2665
01:07:17.030 --> 01:07:20.220
And yesterday we just hit 67,000 Patreon subscribers.

2666
01:07:20.350 --> 01:07:20.820
Oh my gosh,

2667
01:07:20.950 --> 01:07:21.660
congratulations.

2668
01:07:21.750 --> 01:07:22.220
Thank you.

2669
01:07:22.390 --> 01:07:23.740
That's a really significant number.

2670
01:07:23.950 --> 01:07:24.430
Thank you.

2671
01:07:24.630 --> 01:07:25.940
I wanted to ask,

2672
01:07:26.110 --> 01:07:29.420
I'm not really a big terminology guy and I definitely don't have

2673
01:07:29.420 --> 01:07:32.460
all the stats and I am not somebody who cannot be educated.

2674
01:07:33.050 --> 01:07:34.710
But I wanted to

2675
01:07:34.970 --> 01:07:40.330
talk about where the statistics are that we would specifically be needing the,

2676
01:07:40.490 --> 01:07:42.150
the universal basic income

2677
01:07:42.610 --> 01:07:43.530
due to AI.

2678
01:07:43.550 --> 01:07:46.290
I wanna go back to when COVID happened.

2679
01:07:46.930 --> 01:07:47.790
That was

2680
01:07:48.160 --> 01:07:50.000
very stats based.

2681
01:07:50.100 --> 01:07:50.240
We,

2682
01:07:50.330 --> 01:07:50.350
uh,

2683
01:07:50.520 --> 01:07:51.770
a lot of people were out of work.

2684
01:07:51.970 --> 01:07:52.720
Nobody could do things.

2685
01:07:52.770 --> 01:07:54.680
And that was very easy to keep up with,

2686
01:07:54.730 --> 01:07:54.840
like,

2687
01:07:54.890 --> 01:07:55.280
hey,

2688
01:07:55.570 --> 01:07:56.440
nobody's going to work.

2689
01:07:56.530 --> 01:07:56.950
So it

2690
01:07:57.130 --> 01:07:58.810
makes more sense statistically

2691
01:07:59.130 --> 01:08:00.230
that we all got that.

2692
01:08:00.410 --> 01:08:00.980
However,

2693
01:08:01.170 --> 01:08:03.330
I don't want to act like everybody in the world loves.

2694
01:08:03.450 --> 01:08:03.830
AI.

2695
01:08:04.080 --> 01:08:05.380
We have a lot of companies who,

2696
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:06.790
if they even do an AI flyer,

2697
01:08:06.960 --> 01:08:10.340
you're either getting canceled or they're rearranging their whole team.

2698
01:08:10.520 --> 01:08:13.060
And there are a lot of companies who are also

2699
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:16.950
building up their brands to compete with the AI brands because they know

2700
01:08:16.950 --> 01:08:20.270
that there is also a big majority of the people who hate it.

2701
01:08:20.609 --> 01:08:23.090
So I feel like the statistics that you're saying,

2702
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:25.550
Unless I'm not understanding,

2703
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.350
you're basing every single company under the same guideline as

2704
01:08:28.350 --> 01:08:31.180
if they're all using AI and that will be the same

2705
01:08:31.399 --> 01:08:31.710
case.

2706
01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:33.189
Am I misunderstanding that?

2707
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:34.899
Maybe just like a tweak.

2708
01:08:35.250 --> 01:08:35.470
Um,

2709
01:08:35.740 --> 01:08:37.279
so there's broad disapproval of AI

2710
01:08:37.590 --> 01:08:38.779
and you're obviously,

2711
01:08:39.160 --> 01:08:39.430
you know,

2712
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:40.470
perceiving that,

2713
01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:43.430
and then companies are going to use AI in different ways.

2714
01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:46.250
All the CEOs I've talked to have suggested that

2715
01:08:46.550 --> 01:08:49.200
um it's going to lead to a reduction in work workers

2716
01:08:49.350 --> 01:08:52.500
and some of the reduction in workers is not AI based um

2717
01:08:52.500 --> 01:08:55.810
there is something called AI washing which is like hey I overhired

2718
01:08:56.069 --> 01:08:58.250
like uh you know I I um

2719
01:08:58.430 --> 01:09:00.069
managed my company poorly

2720
01:09:00.310 --> 01:09:03.069
so I'm now gonna fire a bunch of people and I'm gonna blame AI.

2721
01:09:03.990 --> 01:09:04.859
That that has totally happened.

2722
01:09:04.990 --> 01:09:05.649
There's also,

2723
01:09:05.870 --> 01:09:05.979
uh,

2724
01:09:06.069 --> 01:09:06.229
like,

2725
01:09:06.390 --> 01:09:06.740
hey,

2726
01:09:07.069 --> 01:09:11.510
the reality is I am gonna replace like 500 customer service workers with 50 in AI.

2727
01:09:11.630 --> 01:09:13.569
That's also very real and it's happening.

2728
01:09:13.779 --> 01:09:15.870
And a real company told me that they were gonna do that.

2729
01:09:15.930 --> 01:09:16.500
I am

2730
01:09:16.609 --> 01:09:18.770
of the opinion that universal basic income

2731
01:09:18.930 --> 01:09:19.590
is necessary,

2732
01:09:19.810 --> 01:09:20.359
was necessary,

2733
01:09:20.490 --> 01:09:21.229
will be necessary,

2734
01:09:21.330 --> 01:09:22.390
and the sooner we implement it,

2735
01:09:22.410 --> 01:09:22.760
the better.

2736
01:09:22.850 --> 01:09:24.180
I believed in this years ago.

2737
01:09:24.250 --> 01:09:25.390
I believe in it now,

2738
01:09:25.529 --> 01:09:28.729
and I think it's going to become more and more apparent to people as

2739
01:09:28.930 --> 01:09:30.750
the college grads are

2740
01:09:30.899 --> 01:09:31.720
shunted

2741
01:09:32.010 --> 01:09:32.819
into,

2742
01:09:33.050 --> 01:09:33.430
uh,

2743
01:09:33.450 --> 01:09:36.609
jobs that do not require a college degree because the knowledge premium

2744
01:09:36.850 --> 01:09:40.149
that has benefited generations of college graduates is about to get

2745
01:09:40.330 --> 01:09:41.240
uh eviscerated.

2746
01:09:41.330 --> 01:09:43.149
If you have that population

2747
01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:44.260
coming home,

2748
01:09:44.510 --> 01:09:46.580
I think there's gonna be a lot of uh

2749
01:09:46.899 --> 01:09:47.830
discontent,

2750
01:09:48.160 --> 01:09:48.390
um,

2751
01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:52.390
and I'm not going to pretend that universal basic income solves every problem,

2752
01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:52.910
um,

2753
01:09:53.000 --> 01:09:55.390
but it provides a foundation and a transition

2754
01:09:55.390 --> 01:09:58.060
mechanism and fuel for people to be able to

2755
01:09:58.400 --> 01:09:59.630
uh start businesses,

2756
01:09:59.750 --> 01:10:00.870
create opportunities,

2757
01:10:01.080 --> 01:10:01.230
uh,

2758
01:10:01.320 --> 01:10:02.070
pursue

2759
01:10:02.280 --> 01:10:03.900
initiatives and passions,

2760
01:10:04.000 --> 01:10:04.190
uh,

2761
01:10:04.360 --> 01:10:05.380
and maybe

2762
01:10:05.630 --> 01:10:06.950
like make a transition

2763
01:10:07.080 --> 01:10:08.720
both professionally and regionally.

2764
01:10:09.170 --> 01:10:09.440
Yes,

2765
01:10:09.570 --> 01:10:09.680
um,

2766
01:10:09.770 --> 01:10:11.320
I also want to we're gonna pause here.

2767
01:10:11.410 --> 01:10:12.710
We're out of time for this claim.

2768
01:10:13.060 --> 01:10:13.790
Congratulations

2769
01:10:14.010 --> 01:10:15.360
on the community and business.

2770
01:10:16.130 --> 01:10:19.160
My final surrounding claim is the market will optimize

2771
01:10:19.360 --> 01:10:20.830
for productivity and profit,

2772
01:10:21.050 --> 01:10:22.130
not human dignity.

2773
01:10:22.290 --> 01:10:23.660
If you'd like to be the next debater,

2774
01:10:23.850 --> 01:10:27.460
get to that chair in 321.

2775
01:10:29.310 --> 01:10:29.420
Hey,

2776
01:10:29.510 --> 01:10:29.880
how are you?

2777
01:10:29.950 --> 01:10:30.600
Nice to meet you.

2778
01:10:30.750 --> 01:10:31.400
Nice to meet

2779
01:10:31.510 --> 01:10:32.850
the best dressed man here.

2780
01:10:33.030 --> 01:10:34.100
So tell me about yourself.

2781
01:10:34.190 --> 01:10:34.300
Yeah,

2782
01:10:34.510 --> 01:10:37.700
so I work at a nonprofit and I'm their head of emerging technology policy.

2783
01:10:37.790 --> 01:10:38.660
So basically I read,

2784
01:10:38.790 --> 01:10:38.980
write,

2785
01:10:39.150 --> 01:10:42.500
talk about AI and how it's impacting consumers every single day.

2786
01:10:42.570 --> 01:10:43.270
What kind of nonprofit?

2787
01:10:43.290 --> 01:10:44.620
I'm at the Consumer Choice Center.

2788
01:10:44.670 --> 01:10:44.740
Uh,

2789
01:10:44.870 --> 01:10:45.060
we're,

2790
01:10:45.110 --> 01:10:46.300
we're based in Arlington,

2791
01:10:46.470 --> 01:10:46.580
uh,

2792
01:10:46.830 --> 01:10:47.820
rather Washington DC,

2793
01:10:47.910 --> 01:10:48.810
but we're all over the world,

2794
01:10:48.890 --> 01:10:48.990
right?

2795
01:10:49.110 --> 01:10:49.340
So

2796
01:10:49.740 --> 01:10:51.340
we kind of go in and meet people where they're at,

2797
01:10:51.470 --> 01:10:52.660
whether that's here in United States.

2798
01:10:52.790 --> 01:10:54.620
States or overseas in Europe or Canada,

2799
01:10:54.710 --> 01:10:55.300
what are you finding?

2800
01:10:55.350 --> 01:10:56.110
I wanna hear more.

2801
01:10:56.230 --> 01:10:56.460
Yeah,

2802
01:10:56.630 --> 01:10:56.820
so I,

2803
01:10:56.870 --> 01:10:56.960
I,

2804
01:10:57.030 --> 01:10:58.100
I think when it's all said and done,

2805
01:10:58.150 --> 01:11:01.540
when we're looking at this particular question around human dignity and and AI,

2806
01:11:01.670 --> 01:11:04.060
I think that it's important to go and ground it in terms of who

2807
01:11:04.060 --> 01:11:07.200
is going to set like what the parameters of that human dignity looks like.

2808
01:11:07.350 --> 01:11:08.910
I think right now the marketplace,

2809
01:11:09.230 --> 01:11:09.500
it's not,

2810
01:11:09.520 --> 01:11:11.570
they're not mutually exclusive goals in terms of going and

2811
01:11:11.590 --> 01:11:14.400
and maximizing for productivity and profit as well as and,

2812
01:11:14.470 --> 01:11:16.620
and counting for human dignity in of itself.

2813
01:11:17.090 --> 01:11:19.400
These companies are competing for consumer dollars,

2814
01:11:19.490 --> 01:11:20.950
they're competing for their attention,

2815
01:11:21.090 --> 01:11:21.800
their patronage,

2816
01:11:21.860 --> 01:11:22.040
right?

2817
01:11:22.090 --> 01:11:22.450
And

2818
01:11:22.690 --> 01:11:23.120
basically,

2819
01:11:23.210 --> 01:11:25.480
I think that consumers vote with their feet very effectively on these,

2820
01:11:25.610 --> 01:11:26.660
on these companies and

2821
01:11:26.880 --> 01:11:30.430
I think that whether it's on the degree of safety or restrictions that

2822
01:11:30.430 --> 01:11:33.380
these companies are willing to go and put on their models versus maybe

2823
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:36.310
very few as as Grok will go and show perhaps

2824
01:11:36.480 --> 01:11:39.350
these are the kinds of things that I think consumers go in and show

2825
01:11:39.350 --> 01:11:41.940
and demonstrate and then that doesn't even account for the open source community.

2826
01:11:42.160 --> 01:11:44.270
I think when we're talking about human dignity,

2827
01:11:44.360 --> 01:11:46.230
certainly with this particular conversation,

2828
01:11:46.480 --> 01:11:47.520
we have to keep in mind

2829
01:11:47.720 --> 01:11:48.760
as again who is.

2830
01:11:48.810 --> 01:11:51.540
Going and setting that parameter if we're asking the government to go and do that,

2831
01:11:51.590 --> 01:11:54.250
I think that that is a very dangerous kind of course because

2832
01:11:54.470 --> 01:11:56.740
I think that there is a wide variety of opinions in

2833
01:11:56.740 --> 01:11:58.640
terms of the current administration that's in the White House.

2834
01:11:58.750 --> 01:11:58.860
Uh,

2835
01:11:58.990 --> 01:12:00.380
there was certainly a fair share of opinions about

2836
01:12:00.380 --> 01:12:02.250
the previous administration that was in the White House,

2837
01:12:02.470 --> 01:12:06.390
and I'm not sure if I want to go and trust those politicians to go and set

2838
01:12:06.700 --> 01:12:08.540
what that human dignity standard might be

2839
01:12:08.540 --> 01:12:10.700
because it's different for each individual person.

2840
01:12:10.990 --> 01:12:12.520
So I think there's that side of the equation.

2841
01:12:12.610 --> 01:12:12.640
Well,

2842
01:12:12.810 --> 01:12:13.000
so you,

2843
01:12:13.090 --> 01:12:15.300
you made two points just now that I want to press on.

2844
01:12:15.410 --> 01:12:16.000
So number 1,

2845
01:12:16.050 --> 01:12:16.360
you said,

2846
01:12:16.470 --> 01:12:16.630
look,

2847
01:12:16.730 --> 01:12:18.270
the market will actually

2848
01:12:18.530 --> 01:12:21.110
optimize for human dignity because consumers will

2849
01:12:21.340 --> 01:12:22.450
spend their money accordingly.

2850
01:12:22.690 --> 01:12:23.680
And then number 2 is,

2851
01:12:23.810 --> 01:12:27.210
even if you accept that the market will not optimize for human dignity,

2852
01:12:27.370 --> 01:12:28.980
you don't want the government to do it because they,

2853
01:12:29.030 --> 01:12:29.350
they,

2854
01:12:29.490 --> 01:12:29.720
you know,

2855
01:12:29.820 --> 01:12:30.560
aren't very

2856
01:12:30.690 --> 01:12:31.070
like

2857
01:12:31.270 --> 01:12:32.520
aren't very whatever the heck,

2858
01:12:32.610 --> 01:12:32.880
liked,

2859
01:12:32.930 --> 01:12:33.320
competent,

2860
01:12:33.410 --> 01:12:33.890
whatever it is.

2861
01:12:33.970 --> 01:12:34.880
I think I'll push back on that.

2862
01:12:34.900 --> 01:12:36.550
I'm not saying that they won't go and,

2863
01:12:36.570 --> 01:12:38.570
and it's not that they won't optimize for human dignity.

2864
01:12:38.590 --> 01:12:38.880
It's just.

2865
01:12:39.040 --> 01:12:39.340
That

2866
01:12:39.520 --> 01:12:40.950
I think that it's a Pareto improvement,

2867
01:12:41.010 --> 01:12:41.120
right?

2868
01:12:41.160 --> 01:12:43.540
It's constantly an iterative process because what people

2869
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.650
are expecting from these companies is constantly changing.

2870
01:12:45.800 --> 01:12:48.390
What we thought about for the social media company conversation just a

2871
01:12:48.390 --> 01:12:50.910
decade ago relative to where we are today is two different things,

2872
01:12:50.960 --> 01:12:52.660
and companies are constantly changing for that.

2873
01:12:52.840 --> 01:12:53.740
I remember

2874
01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:58.780
in the woebegone days when a company called Walmart came around to various,

2875
01:12:58.880 --> 01:12:59.110
uh,

2876
01:12:59.400 --> 01:12:59.830
communities,

2877
01:12:59.920 --> 01:13:00.790
and then people would be like,

2878
01:13:00.910 --> 01:13:02.520
no one is gonna shop at Walmart.

2879
01:13:02.720 --> 01:13:04.870
They're gonna shop at their local hardware store and

2880
01:13:04.870 --> 01:13:06.830
their mom and pop because they love those shops.

2881
01:13:07.020 --> 01:13:07.530
Keepers

2882
01:13:07.790 --> 01:13:09.310
and they're gonna want to shop local.

2883
01:13:09.710 --> 01:13:12.250
And then that lasted for about 10 seconds.

2884
01:13:12.350 --> 01:13:13.620
Everyone went to Walmart,

2885
01:13:13.790 --> 01:13:14.030
um,

2886
01:13:14.190 --> 01:13:15.850
and the local mom and pop's,

2887
01:13:16.150 --> 01:13:16.260
uh,

2888
01:13:16.350 --> 01:13:17.020
disappeared.

2889
01:13:17.070 --> 01:13:18.530
You now have American Express is,

2890
01:13:18.670 --> 01:13:19.330
in my opinion,

2891
01:13:19.470 --> 01:13:20.130
sort of like

2892
01:13:20.370 --> 01:13:23.100
pulling on the heartstrings like shop small

2893
01:13:23.390 --> 01:13:23.860
Saturday,

2894
01:13:23.910 --> 01:13:25.540
and then that's like the one day people are like,

2895
01:13:25.630 --> 01:13:26.180
oh snap,

2896
01:13:26.270 --> 01:13:27.050
maybe I will

2897
01:13:27.250 --> 01:13:27.740
shop in,

2898
01:13:27.790 --> 01:13:28.140
in the,

2899
01:13:28.190 --> 01:13:29.020
the mom and pop.

2900
01:13:29.140 --> 01:13:29.820
The marketplace,

2901
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:30.570
in my opinion,

2902
01:13:31.110 --> 01:13:32.690
does not reward the folks

2903
01:13:32.830 --> 01:13:33.460
who say like,

2904
01:13:33.580 --> 01:13:34.100
hey,

2905
01:13:34.270 --> 01:13:34.820
you should support.

2906
01:13:35.120 --> 01:13:37.200
me even though I'm going to be a little more expensive,

2907
01:13:37.380 --> 01:13:38.560
like a little further away,

2908
01:13:38.580 --> 01:13:39.050
a little bit like,

2909
01:13:39.100 --> 01:13:39.170
no,

2910
01:13:39.220 --> 01:13:39.290
no,

2911
01:13:39.340 --> 01:13:39.450
no,

2912
01:13:39.540 --> 01:13:40.500
like Americans are just like,

2913
01:13:40.540 --> 01:13:41.900
like hard pass.

2914
01:13:42.300 --> 01:13:44.050
I would actually go and push back on that a little bit.

2915
01:13:44.420 --> 01:13:45.530
I'd go and push back on that a little bit,

2916
01:13:45.620 --> 01:13:45.760
right?

2917
01:13:45.820 --> 01:13:47.450
Because if you think about platforms like Etsy,

2918
01:13:47.500 --> 01:13:48.100
for example,

2919
01:13:48.340 --> 01:13:52.090
that algorithm that is powered by AI is connecting lots of Americans to

2920
01:13:52.090 --> 01:13:55.330
small businesses all around the world in ways that were not previously possible.

2921
01:13:55.540 --> 01:13:55.900
And that is,

2922
01:13:55.940 --> 01:13:57.080
I think that's like

2923
01:13:57.540 --> 01:13:58.210
that's like a,

2924
01:13:58.420 --> 01:13:58.570
again,

2925
01:13:58.890 --> 01:13:59.160
to me,

2926
01:13:59.180 --> 01:14:01.290
like a different claim that you're making.

2927
01:14:01.430 --> 01:14:02.680
So to the um.

2928
01:14:02.940 --> 01:14:03.040
Like,

2929
01:14:03.130 --> 01:14:03.320
hey,

2930
01:14:03.540 --> 01:14:04.970
because of consumer choice,

2931
01:14:05.210 --> 01:14:08.810
the market will actually like reward like good values,

2932
01:14:08.970 --> 01:14:09.410
good practices,

2933
01:14:09.490 --> 01:14:09.990
etc.

2934
01:14:10.290 --> 01:14:10.690
Like I,

2935
01:14:10.810 --> 01:14:12.650
I would just say anyone who looks at

2936
01:14:12.810 --> 01:14:15.200
the record of American consumer behavior,

2937
01:14:15.450 --> 01:14:15.600
um,

2938
01:14:15.770 --> 01:14:16.560
if you look at the facts,

2939
01:14:16.610 --> 01:14:17.690
like I don't think that's borne out.

2940
01:14:17.770 --> 01:14:18.720
The second thing is like,

2941
01:14:18.850 --> 01:14:19.260
look,

2942
01:14:19.530 --> 01:14:19.800
um,

2943
01:14:20.040 --> 01:14:23.270
different folks can have different points of view on like the role of government.

2944
01:14:23.490 --> 01:14:26.650
One of the arguments I'm making is that I prefer

2945
01:14:26.970 --> 01:14:28.920
human agency to rest with people,

2946
01:14:29.250 --> 01:14:29.440
um,

2947
01:14:29.570 --> 01:14:30.890
and entrepreneurship to be.

2948
01:14:31.040 --> 01:14:31.520
Like the,

2949
01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:31.750
uh,

2950
01:14:31.800 --> 01:14:35.030
a huge driver of what people do because I think that's more than dignity,

2951
01:14:35.120 --> 01:14:36.510
that's like activation,

2952
01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:37.710
actualization,

2953
01:14:37.870 --> 01:14:38.030
like,

2954
01:14:38.240 --> 01:14:38.510
you know,

2955
01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:39.630
being able to,

2956
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:40.260
um,

2957
01:14:40.550 --> 01:14:40.990
build something,

2958
01:14:41.160 --> 01:14:41.710
create something,

2959
01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:42.550
live your dreams.

2960
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:42.960
Like I,

2961
01:14:43.040 --> 01:14:45.150
I have actually had a career that resembles that

2962
01:14:45.400 --> 01:14:47.470
and like I want that for as many people as possible.

2963
01:14:47.520 --> 01:14:51.550
I think that is the definition of human dignity that we should be striving for.

2964
01:14:51.600 --> 01:14:52.990
And I think that these platforms,

2965
01:14:53.160 --> 01:14:56.150
whether it's anthropic and the closed source proprietary models or open source

2966
01:14:56.150 --> 01:14:58.820
ones are giving Americans plenty of opportunities to go and do that.

2967
01:14:59.150 --> 01:14:59.460
And again,

2968
01:14:59.510 --> 01:15:00.100
I think that it is,

2969
01:15:00.120 --> 01:15:00.180
no,

2970
01:15:00.230 --> 01:15:00.340
no,

2971
01:15:00.390 --> 01:15:00.460
no,

2972
01:15:00.510 --> 01:15:00.570
no,

2973
01:15:00.590 --> 01:15:02.100
I'm gonna push back on this for just a second.

2974
01:15:02.750 --> 01:15:03.220
There's like,

2975
01:15:03.340 --> 01:15:03.820
hey,

2976
01:15:03.950 --> 01:15:07.900
you can use my stuff if you pay the license and this is gonna be good for your dignity,

2977
01:15:08.030 --> 01:15:08.610
or

2978
01:15:08.830 --> 01:15:09.370
there's

2979
01:15:09.550 --> 01:15:11.610
We are now a $1 trillion company built on your

2980
01:15:11.610 --> 01:15:13.640
data and we're gonna share that value with you.

2981
01:15:13.860 --> 01:15:17.050
I'm gonna suggest that the latter version actually respects,

2982
01:15:17.100 --> 01:15:17.260
uh,

2983
01:15:17.380 --> 01:15:19.700
dignity at a higher level than you can use my stuff.

2984
01:15:20.390 --> 01:15:20.500
Yeah,

2985
01:15:20.870 --> 01:15:20.980
again,

2986
01:15:21.000 --> 01:15:21.860
I don't think it's about that.

2987
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:25.340
I think that even when I was talking about before with like the use cases,

2988
01:15:25.430 --> 01:15:25.780
that's not,

2989
01:15:25.910 --> 01:15:28.190
we'll go and take it away from the model level for using my stuff.

2990
01:15:28.350 --> 01:15:29.890
We're talking about the use cases where we have,

2991
01:15:30.070 --> 01:15:30.180
again,

2992
01:15:30.270 --> 01:15:31.700
the technology getting utilized whether it's for

2993
01:15:31.700 --> 01:15:33.370
AI powered trousers or we're looking at again

2994
01:15:33.470 --> 01:15:34.900
in the healthcare industry where nurses are,

2995
01:15:34.980 --> 01:15:35.300
are,

2996
01:15:35.390 --> 01:15:36.650
there's a real shortage for nurses,

2997
01:15:36.750 --> 01:15:37.050
right?

2998
01:15:37.310 --> 01:15:38.780
And AI is gonna go and automate,

2999
01:15:38.830 --> 01:15:39.300
let's say the,

3000
01:15:39.390 --> 01:15:39.540
uh,

3001
01:15:39.590 --> 01:15:41.330
the paperwork that nurses have to go and do.

3002
01:15:41.470 --> 01:15:42.860
And that was actually one of the number one causes.

3003
01:15:42.980 --> 01:15:44.880
That nurses were leaving the workforces that they were just

3004
01:15:44.880 --> 01:15:47.360
suffering so much burnout from going and dealing with that,

3005
01:15:47.450 --> 01:15:49.890
that they weren't doing the thing that they cared about anymore and AI

3006
01:15:50.130 --> 01:15:52.720
going and automating that away lets them focus on the thing that they want

3007
01:15:52.720 --> 01:15:54.810
to go and do that brought them into that career to begin with.

3008
01:15:54.890 --> 01:15:56.580
So that's actually giving them a sense of purpose and

3009
01:15:56.580 --> 01:15:58.760
human dignity in a way that was not previously possible.

3010
01:15:58.850 --> 01:15:59.960
This is like a whole new claim,

3011
01:16:00.020 --> 01:16:00.160
James,

3012
01:16:00.220 --> 01:16:01.120
I'm actually enjoying,

3013
01:16:01.210 --> 01:16:02.920
which is like AI is gonna get rid of the

3014
01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:05.550
bureaucracy and allow people to do what they wanna do.

3015
01:16:05.930 --> 01:16:06.050
People,

3016
01:16:06.770 --> 01:16:07.980
we're gonna have to pause here.

3017
01:16:08.130 --> 01:16:09.620
You've been voted out with the majority.

3018
01:16:09.770 --> 01:16:10.640
And in some cases that's true,

3019
01:16:10.730 --> 01:16:11.170
yeah.

3020
01:16:11.770 --> 01:16:12.720
That was fascinating.

3021
01:16:14.080 --> 01:16:15.550
If you'd like to be the next debater,

3022
01:16:15.710 --> 01:16:19.140
please get to the chair in 321.

3023
01:16:22.520 --> 01:16:22.570
Hey,

3024
01:16:22.670 --> 01:16:23.110
how are you?

3025
01:16:23.180 --> 01:16:23.460
Hi,

3026
01:16:23.580 --> 01:16:23.850
Megna,

3027
01:16:23.900 --> 01:16:25.410
I'm a software engineer at Google.

3028
01:16:25.530 --> 01:16:25.880
I've

3029
01:16:26.140 --> 01:16:27.610
been a software engineer for 10 years.

3030
01:16:27.660 --> 01:16:29.070
And where are you physically located?

3031
01:16:29.300 --> 01:16:29.550
Uh,

3032
01:16:29.740 --> 01:16:30.000
Bao.

3033
01:16:30.470 --> 01:16:30.570
Oh,

3034
01:16:30.660 --> 01:16:30.900
great,

3035
01:16:30.990 --> 01:16:31.610
thanks for making the trip.

3036
01:16:31.740 --> 01:16:32.450
Just a show of hands,

3037
01:16:32.540 --> 01:16:36.840
how many of you used any of the Gen AI platforms to prepare for this debate?

3038
01:16:37.470 --> 01:16:37.480
OK.

3039
01:16:39.060 --> 01:16:39.440
So

3040
01:16:39.660 --> 01:16:41.690
pre AI pre-internet,

3041
01:16:41.820 --> 01:16:43.170
unless you had access,

3042
01:16:43.260 --> 01:16:43.450
if you,

3043
01:16:43.500 --> 01:16:44.110
if you're poor,

3044
01:16:44.240 --> 01:16:45.520
you wouldn't have been able to

3045
01:16:45.660 --> 01:16:49.120
like have access to information in order to prepare and be equally

3046
01:16:49.340 --> 01:16:50.680
competent as anyone else.

3047
01:16:50.870 --> 01:16:54.040
So you would have to use your network network through your parents or

3048
01:16:54.140 --> 01:16:56.440
you wouldn't need access to education or books,

3049
01:16:56.660 --> 01:16:56.970
etc.

3050
01:16:57.140 --> 01:16:57.890
to be able to.

3051
01:16:58.410 --> 01:16:58.640
You know,

3052
01:16:58.730 --> 01:16:59.030
have

3053
01:16:59.130 --> 01:17:01.310
the dignity or knowledge to come and present,

3054
01:17:01.570 --> 01:17:01.760
uh,

3055
01:17:01.810 --> 01:17:01.970
in,

3056
01:17:02.010 --> 01:17:02.950
in a space like this.

3057
01:17:03.050 --> 01:17:05.720
But now I think all of these platforms provide similar answers.

3058
01:17:05.810 --> 01:17:06.470
If I were to,

3059
01:17:06.690 --> 01:17:07.880
irrespective of what my prompt is,

3060
01:17:07.930 --> 01:17:09.180
you're gonna get fairly

3061
01:17:09.410 --> 01:17:12.600
a good amount of equal information and all of us would be equally prepared,

3062
01:17:12.650 --> 01:17:13.920
and that wouldn't have been possible before.

3063
01:17:14.050 --> 01:17:14.240
First,

3064
01:17:14.410 --> 01:17:14.520
let,

3065
01:17:14.610 --> 01:17:15.470
let me say.

3066
01:17:15.930 --> 01:17:18.560
I did not use AI to prepare for this and that wasn't deliberate.

3067
01:17:18.650 --> 01:17:19.400
I maybe I,

3068
01:17:19.450 --> 01:17:20.480
I could have or should have.

3069
01:17:20.570 --> 01:17:21.810
Maybe I even intended to.

3070
01:17:21.930 --> 01:17:23.860
I've written two books on this topic.

3071
01:17:25.410 --> 01:17:25.800
So what I,

3072
01:17:25.890 --> 01:17:27.610
what I actually did in real life,

3073
01:17:27.970 --> 01:17:29.270
you guys get to judges,

3074
01:17:29.490 --> 01:17:31.830
I just like reread my own books

3075
01:17:32.760 --> 01:17:33.150
because

3076
01:17:33.330 --> 01:17:36.190
what you're saying about AI preparing people for

3077
01:17:36.390 --> 01:17:37.300
this kind of debate,

3078
01:17:37.410 --> 01:17:39.970
I would 100% concede and agree with because like you're,

3079
01:17:40.090 --> 01:17:41.030
you're smart to do it.

3080
01:17:41.130 --> 01:17:41.610
I think that's.

3081
01:17:41.660 --> 01:17:43.200
It's a very different statement than that the

3082
01:17:43.200 --> 01:17:45.240
market will optimize for productivity and profit,

3083
01:17:45.290 --> 01:17:46.080
not human dignity.

3084
01:17:46.170 --> 01:17:46.560
If you say,

3085
01:17:46.710 --> 01:17:46.810
look,

3086
01:17:46.890 --> 01:17:48.470
if you're showing up to a debate event,

3087
01:17:48.610 --> 01:17:50.540
you're gonna be better prepared because of AI

3088
01:17:51.810 --> 01:17:52.600
like wouldn't even touch that.

3089
01:17:52.650 --> 01:17:53.040
I'd be like,

3090
01:17:53.130 --> 01:17:53.400
yes.

3091
01:17:53.530 --> 01:17:55.300
What I'm saying is that the market

3092
01:17:55.490 --> 01:17:56.730
is going to reward

3093
01:17:56.880 --> 01:17:57.940
the capital holders,

3094
01:17:58.010 --> 01:17:59.400
the controllers of the AI,

3095
01:17:59.530 --> 01:18:00.940
the repositories of data,

3096
01:18:01.050 --> 01:18:03.230
and the users of processing power.

3097
01:18:03.330 --> 01:18:06.160
That's going to accelerate inequality,

3098
01:18:06.400 --> 01:18:07.270
inequities.

3099
01:18:07.550 --> 01:18:07.620
Uh,

3100
01:18:07.750 --> 01:18:08.710
in our society,

3101
01:18:08.870 --> 01:18:11.380
and they're going to be a lot of people experiencing very,

3102
01:18:11.470 --> 01:18:13.820
very undignified circumstances as a result.

3103
01:18:13.990 --> 01:18:17.590
The focus is being taken away from the fact that we live in a capitalistic society.

3104
01:18:17.830 --> 01:18:19.340
So there is no free lunch.

3105
01:18:19.470 --> 01:18:22.730
These companies would have to in some way charge like users

3106
01:18:22.830 --> 01:18:23.980
in order to make these products.

3107
01:18:24.030 --> 01:18:24.850
So that could be

3108
01:18:25.190 --> 01:18:28.050
either providing ads or a subscription,

3109
01:18:28.330 --> 01:18:30.300
but they have to get users to use these products.

3110
01:18:30.350 --> 01:18:30.600
And,

3111
01:18:30.870 --> 01:18:31.730
and because of that,

3112
01:18:31.890 --> 01:18:33.410
they have to focus on

3113
01:18:33.560 --> 01:18:33.820
getting.

3114
01:18:33.950 --> 01:18:34.420
Users

3115
01:18:34.780 --> 01:18:36.850
the answers that they need and so they are focused

3116
01:18:36.850 --> 01:18:38.730
more on profit because of the society we live in.

3117
01:18:38.900 --> 01:18:39.700
So I agree with you there.

3118
01:18:39.860 --> 01:18:40.010
But,

3119
01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:40.770
but generally,

3120
01:18:40.940 --> 01:18:41.130
uh,

3121
01:18:41.380 --> 01:18:42.410
these products have been

3122
01:18:42.850 --> 01:18:46.240
extremely useful for pretty much anyone from any background in

3123
01:18:46.380 --> 01:18:47.170
giving access to,

3124
01:18:47.190 --> 01:18:49.200
to these large language models are trained on every

3125
01:18:49.340 --> 01:18:51.920
possible knowledge and pilot data on the internet.

3126
01:18:52.020 --> 01:18:53.480
So anyone has access to that.

3127
01:18:53.810 --> 01:18:53.820
OK,

3128
01:18:53.980 --> 01:18:55.540
just a simple conversation right now.

3129
01:18:55.620 --> 01:18:55.970
Yes,

3130
01:18:56.260 --> 01:18:56.440
again,

3131
01:18:56.660 --> 01:18:57.360
I would not

3132
01:18:57.500 --> 01:19:00.290
try and counter an argument saying that these tools are broadly useful.

3133
01:19:01.010 --> 01:19:01.450
For

3134
01:19:01.650 --> 01:19:03.960
lots of people in like lots of different circumstances.

3135
01:19:04.050 --> 01:19:05.110
The question to me is,

3136
01:19:05.130 --> 01:19:06.360
where does the value go?

3137
01:19:06.410 --> 01:19:08.120
And so if I use this AI tool,

3138
01:19:08.170 --> 01:19:11.730
it might allow me to accomplish my tasks a little bit more effectively,

3139
01:19:12.050 --> 01:19:12.430
but

3140
01:19:12.570 --> 01:19:15.400
there are going to be $1 trillion firms,

3141
01:19:15.450 --> 01:19:15.660
uh,

3142
01:19:15.810 --> 01:19:18.040
that are the primary beneficiaries,

3143
01:19:18.090 --> 01:19:19.960
and the main way that anthropic is going

3144
01:19:19.960 --> 01:19:22.910
to generate $100 billion in revenue this year

3145
01:19:23.130 --> 01:19:25.890
is that corporations are going to pay anthropic

3146
01:19:26.090 --> 01:19:26.800
that money.

3147
01:19:27.240 --> 01:19:28.380
And swap out

3148
01:19:28.540 --> 01:19:31.910
coders and marketers and call center workers and

3149
01:19:31.910 --> 01:19:34.680
researchers and data analysts and like all,

3150
01:19:34.700 --> 01:19:36.390
all the folks who used to do that job.

3151
01:19:36.480 --> 01:19:39.270
And so you're going to have Anthropic and its investors is a very,

3152
01:19:39.320 --> 01:19:40.210
very big winner.

3153
01:19:40.360 --> 01:19:41.820
Google's gonna be a very big winner.

3154
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:43.340
Amazon's gonna be a very big winner,

3155
01:19:43.480 --> 01:19:43.870
but the,

3156
01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:45.270
the average person is gonna be like,

3157
01:19:45.360 --> 01:19:45.950
wait a minute,

3158
01:19:46.200 --> 01:19:47.190
what happened to my job?

3159
01:19:47.320 --> 01:19:47.710
Wait a minute,

3160
01:19:47.800 --> 01:19:51.340
why is my kid at home uh on the sofa instead of having a job?

3161
01:19:51.400 --> 01:19:53.140
So the big thing here is like the market.

3162
01:19:53.430 --> 01:19:54.300
In my opinion,

3163
01:19:54.510 --> 01:19:56.420
it is not designed to optimize for human dignity.

3164
01:19:56.590 --> 01:19:57.210
It's just not.

3165
01:19:57.270 --> 01:19:57.540
It's like,

3166
01:19:57.590 --> 01:19:57.780
you know,

3167
01:19:57.870 --> 01:19:57.980
if,

3168
01:19:58.070 --> 01:19:58.850
if I replace,

3169
01:19:59.310 --> 01:19:59.500
um,

3170
01:19:59.670 --> 01:20:02.170
Uber drivers with way more drivers and that,

3171
01:20:02.190 --> 01:20:04.170
that income source disappears for those people,

3172
01:20:04.470 --> 01:20:05.940
like the market is thrilled.

3173
01:20:06.150 --> 01:20:06.810
Uber is like,

3174
01:20:06.910 --> 01:20:07.260
yes,

3175
01:20:07.470 --> 01:20:07.580
like,

3176
01:20:07.670 --> 01:20:07.860
you know,

3177
01:20:07.950 --> 01:20:08.100
we,

3178
01:20:08.190 --> 01:20:08.860
we did it and,

3179
01:20:08.910 --> 01:20:10.100
and because that's the purpose of Uber.

3180
01:20:10.150 --> 01:20:12.020
The purpose of Uber is not to employ 2 million people.

3181
01:20:12.110 --> 01:20:14.380
The purpose of Uber is to get me from point A to point B,

3182
01:20:14.430 --> 01:20:15.330
and that's the market.

3183
01:20:15.670 --> 01:20:17.650
Like if Uber could magically do this,

3184
01:20:17.870 --> 01:20:19.740
the market would reward Uber is my point.

3185
01:20:20.090 --> 01:20:20.300
Uh,

3186
01:20:20.550 --> 01:20:21.060
pause.

3187
01:20:21.290 --> 01:20:22.070
You've been voted out.

3188
01:20:22.140 --> 01:20:22.630
Thank you.

3189
01:20:22.770 --> 01:20:23.000
Thank you.

3190
01:20:24.290 --> 01:20:24.480
Thank you.

3191
01:20:24.570 --> 01:20:25.160
Great talking to you too.

3192
01:20:25.370 --> 01:20:27.640
321.

3193
01:20:29.740 --> 01:20:30.030
Hey there,

3194
01:20:30.060 --> 01:20:30.450
how are you?

3195
01:20:30.660 --> 01:20:30.810
Good.

3196
01:20:30.860 --> 01:20:31.140
How are you?

3197
01:20:31.340 --> 01:20:31.850
I'm Nathan.

3198
01:20:31.940 --> 01:20:33.150
I wanna start with the

3199
01:20:33.630 --> 01:20:34.200
idea that

3200
01:20:34.300 --> 01:20:37.090
do you agree that we're not at AGI yet but we're on the path to AGI,

3201
01:20:37.150 --> 01:20:38.800
which is why companies are

3202
01:20:38.940 --> 01:20:41.880
kind of doing this corporate restructurings in order to invest more

3203
01:20:42.100 --> 01:20:42.730
in that path.

3204
01:20:42.850 --> 01:20:44.010
And I generally agree with that,

3205
01:20:44.100 --> 01:20:44.210
yeah,

3206
01:20:44.420 --> 01:20:44.790
OK.

3207
01:20:44.940 --> 01:20:45.930
And if you agree with that,

3208
01:20:46.020 --> 01:20:49.090
then I think there's a lot of industry and research partnerships going on.

3209
01:20:49.500 --> 01:20:52.950
That as we get to the path of AGI as these new models get released,

3210
01:20:53.130 --> 01:20:54.840
they're not at the point of AGI yet,

3211
01:20:55.090 --> 01:20:56.500
they're being used for

3212
01:20:56.800 --> 01:20:58.600
purposes of human dignity

3213
01:20:58.970 --> 01:20:59.840
if that makes sense,

3214
01:20:59.890 --> 01:21:02.550
and I think that's why they can coexist at the same time

3215
01:21:02.890 --> 01:21:03.540
when you

3216
01:21:03.770 --> 01:21:04.800
optimize for profit,

3217
01:21:04.850 --> 01:21:05.510
but when you

3218
01:21:05.890 --> 01:21:08.760
release those same models for general use to academia,

3219
01:21:08.810 --> 01:21:09.190
for example,

3220
01:21:09.370 --> 01:21:09.730
that.

3221
01:21:10.060 --> 01:21:10.680
They can

3222
01:21:10.910 --> 01:21:13.020
do it for general purposes like in biology,

3223
01:21:13.100 --> 01:21:13.720
for example.

3224
01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:14.330
Wow,

3225
01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:16.440
this is a very nuanced argument you're making,

3226
01:21:16.700 --> 01:21:16.930
Nathan,

3227
01:21:17.020 --> 01:21:17.850
which I enjoy,

3228
01:21:17.940 --> 01:21:18.490
which is you're like,

3229
01:21:18.580 --> 01:21:19.030
look,

3230
01:21:19.340 --> 01:21:20.360
there are a lot of

3231
01:21:20.490 --> 01:21:23.200
positive prosocial institutions like

3232
01:21:23.330 --> 01:21:24.310
universities

3233
01:21:24.490 --> 01:21:26.110
that are going to use this AI

3234
01:21:26.380 --> 01:21:27.630
to do great things.

3235
01:21:28.200 --> 01:21:28.390
thing,

3236
01:21:28.720 --> 01:21:28.870
you know,

3237
01:21:28.960 --> 01:21:29.460
maybe some,

3238
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:29.980
uh,

3239
01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:31.150
drugs and some other things,

3240
01:21:31.400 --> 01:21:32.360
advanced solutions,

3241
01:21:32.390 --> 01:21:33.680
they're gonna use AI to do so,

3242
01:21:33.700 --> 01:21:36.950
so that AI and human well-being will actually be kind of

3243
01:21:36.950 --> 01:21:39.750
tied together and the market will optimize and like that,

3244
01:21:39.770 --> 01:21:43.180
that is like a very smart argument in part because

3245
01:21:43.440 --> 01:21:45.640
I don't disagree with you that that will happen.

3246
01:21:46.210 --> 01:21:48.430
Like I think that there are gonna be some good people

3247
01:21:48.650 --> 01:21:53.080
in academia and in other precincts that use these AI tools to do great things.

3248
01:21:53.130 --> 01:21:55.910
I do think that you're gonna have advances in life sciences,

3249
01:21:56.330 --> 01:21:57.270
advances in,

3250
01:21:57.290 --> 01:21:57.630
um,

3251
01:21:57.650 --> 01:21:59.520
drug discovery and bioinformatics,

3252
01:21:59.690 --> 01:21:59.800
uh,

3253
01:21:59.930 --> 01:22:01.410
and we're gonna have material,

3254
01:22:01.730 --> 01:22:01.880
uh,

3255
01:22:01.900 --> 01:22:02.590
cures

3256
01:22:02.700 --> 01:22:03.960
to some intractable,

3257
01:22:04.010 --> 01:22:04.180
you know,

3258
01:22:04.280 --> 01:22:06.550
it's like diseases that we haven't been able to solve for before,

3259
01:22:06.570 --> 01:22:07.960
and on that level,

3260
01:22:08.330 --> 01:22:08.920
it's.

3261
01:22:09.030 --> 01:22:09.650
Phenomenal.

3262
01:22:09.740 --> 01:22:11.320
The thing I'm going to say is that

3263
01:22:11.650 --> 01:22:15.920
what you're saying is to me like uh kind of uh off at an angle

3264
01:22:16.170 --> 01:22:18.490
for the market will optimize for productivity and profit,

3265
01:22:18.510 --> 01:22:19.500
not human dignity.

3266
01:22:19.620 --> 01:22:20.780
If you were to

3267
01:22:21.140 --> 01:22:21.440
say,

3268
01:22:21.820 --> 01:22:22.010
hey,

3269
01:22:22.070 --> 01:22:22.410
Andrew,

3270
01:22:22.430 --> 01:22:24.380
AI will be used to make some awesome things

3271
01:22:24.380 --> 01:22:26.040
happen and that'll be good for the human condition,

3272
01:22:26.300 --> 01:22:27.720
I would actually concede and agree.

3273
01:22:28.140 --> 01:22:28.490
You say,

3274
01:22:28.580 --> 01:22:28.770
hey,

3275
01:22:28.820 --> 01:22:30.570
the market will reward

3276
01:22:30.750 --> 01:22:31.850
human dignity over.

3277
01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:32.820
Productivity and profit,

3278
01:22:32.870 --> 01:22:33.980
then I would sharply disagree.

3279
01:22:34.030 --> 01:22:35.610
I think like the vast majority

3280
01:22:35.790 --> 01:22:38.330
of the instances and use cases and the beneficiaries

3281
01:22:38.510 --> 01:22:39.530
are going to be,

3282
01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:40.210
um,

3283
01:22:40.310 --> 01:22:40.540
very,

3284
01:22:40.590 --> 01:22:41.650
very much like,

3285
01:22:41.670 --> 01:22:42.050
uh,

3286
01:22:42.110 --> 01:22:45.050
profit oriented and that what what's gonna happen is

3287
01:22:45.310 --> 01:22:46.650
like the rich are gonna get richer,

3288
01:22:46.950 --> 01:22:47.370
um,

3289
01:22:47.430 --> 01:22:48.980
and the rich in this instance,

3290
01:22:49.070 --> 01:22:49.220
uh,

3291
01:22:49.310 --> 01:22:49.690
are,

3292
01:22:49.830 --> 01:22:51.410
it could be obviously like,

3293
01:22:51.430 --> 01:22:51.690
you know,

3294
01:22:51.710 --> 01:22:52.560
you're wealthy,

3295
01:22:52.860 --> 01:22:53.020
um,

3296
01:22:53.190 --> 01:22:54.770
but it's also like you're wealthy.

3297
01:22:54.970 --> 01:22:55.790
Access to data,

3298
01:22:55.860 --> 01:22:57.270
you're wealthy and like,

3299
01:22:57.320 --> 01:22:57.550
uh,

3300
01:22:57.680 --> 01:22:57.900
you know,

3301
01:22:58.040 --> 01:22:58.570
having

3302
01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:01.950
like a giant franchise the way that like uh Verizon

3303
01:23:01.950 --> 01:23:04.670
or Coca-Cola has like the market's gonna reward that and

3304
01:23:04.670 --> 01:23:07.270
the market's gonna reward corporations' ability to do more with

3305
01:23:07.270 --> 01:23:10.100
less and less in this instance is gonna mean human beings

3306
01:23:10.360 --> 01:23:12.470
and it's gonna be very bad for people broadly.

3307
01:23:12.490 --> 01:23:15.150
I think that's something to debate on whether how,

3308
01:23:15.280 --> 01:23:15.510
how,

3309
01:23:15.600 --> 01:23:15.790
how,

3310
01:23:15.880 --> 01:23:17.860
how close we're getting to that yet because.

3311
01:23:18.230 --> 01:23:18.420
You know,

3312
01:23:18.510 --> 01:23:20.260
I think with the current architecture,

3313
01:23:20.350 --> 01:23:21.210
even there's

3314
01:23:21.430 --> 01:23:22.140
thoughts of like,

3315
01:23:22.270 --> 01:23:22.670
hey,

3316
01:23:22.990 --> 01:23:24.860
when you start running super long tasks,

3317
01:23:24.910 --> 01:23:27.020
your performance starts to degrade and things like that.

3318
01:23:27.110 --> 01:23:27.220
I,

3319
01:23:27.350 --> 01:23:27.830
I just feel like,

3320
01:23:28.310 --> 01:23:29.400
do you think there's a way

3321
01:23:29.610 --> 01:23:29.890
since,

3322
01:23:30.070 --> 01:23:30.220
you know,

3323
01:23:30.270 --> 01:23:31.740
you implement UBI,

3324
01:23:31.830 --> 01:23:31.940
you,

3325
01:23:32.070 --> 01:23:34.700
you thought about it before AI was even in the mainstream,

3326
01:23:34.790 --> 01:23:34.980
right?

3327
01:23:35.380 --> 01:23:36.000
Is it

3328
01:23:36.140 --> 01:23:36.260
right,

3329
01:23:36.660 --> 01:23:36.940
obvious,

3330
01:23:37.070 --> 01:23:37.220
um,

3331
01:23:37.320 --> 01:23:38.180
but Nathan,

3332
01:23:38.390 --> 01:23:39.540
I want to make a pitch to everyone.

3333
01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:40.300
This is important to me,

3334
01:23:40.390 --> 01:23:40.540
very,

3335
01:23:40.610 --> 01:23:41.260
very important to me.

3336
01:23:41.430 --> 01:23:43.980
The proposal is the market will optimize for productivity and profit.

3337
01:23:44.140 --> 01:23:45.250
But not human dignity.

3338
01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:47.590
I want everyone to imagine what a market would

3339
01:23:47.590 --> 01:23:49.880
look like if it was optimized for human dignity,

3340
01:23:50.240 --> 01:23:50.390
um,

3341
01:23:50.630 --> 01:23:53.780
because that to me is actually the project of this age

3342
01:23:53.880 --> 01:23:56.340
to put it in terms that I think most people can understand,

3343
01:23:56.360 --> 01:23:58.750
and this is one of the biggest misconceptions about me is

3344
01:23:58.750 --> 01:24:01.270
that I think that universal basic income is the solve.

3345
01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:02.120
I do not.

3346
01:24:02.160 --> 01:24:04.480
I think universal basic income is the foundation,

3347
01:24:04.960 --> 01:24:05.070
uh,

3348
01:24:05.160 --> 01:24:05.770
or the floor,

3349
01:24:05.810 --> 01:24:07.270
and then you need to build the house.

3350
01:24:07.520 --> 01:24:10.020
So the house is how do people get.

3351
01:24:10.480 --> 01:24:10.970
Purpose,

3352
01:24:11.390 --> 01:24:11.740
structure,

3353
01:24:11.870 --> 01:24:12.260
joy,

3354
01:24:12.310 --> 01:24:12.940
fulfillment,

3355
01:24:13.150 --> 01:24:14.100
community values,

3356
01:24:14.150 --> 01:24:15.170
a place to go

3357
01:24:15.510 --> 01:24:18.810
in an era when AI and machines are gonna do more and more of the work.

3358
01:24:19.150 --> 01:24:19.610
And to me,

3359
01:24:19.630 --> 01:24:23.540
the way you get there is you actually try and optimize for and reward

3360
01:24:23.850 --> 01:24:25.080
human flourishing

3361
01:24:25.270 --> 01:24:26.030
via

3362
01:24:26.710 --> 01:24:29.140
measuring and benefiting health and wellness.

3363
01:24:29.270 --> 01:24:29.650
And my,

3364
01:24:29.710 --> 01:24:29.860
uh,

3365
01:24:29.950 --> 01:24:32.860
and my joke here is that at this point we should be getting paid to go to the gym.

3366
01:24:33.370 --> 01:24:34.280
I want everyone to think about that.

3367
01:24:34.340 --> 01:24:35.860
We should be getting paid to go to the gym

3368
01:24:36.130 --> 01:24:38.510
and the personal trainer who's there whipping us into shape should,

3369
01:24:38.610 --> 01:24:39.580
should get paid too.

3370
01:24:39.930 --> 01:24:40.230
Not,

3371
01:24:40.370 --> 01:24:40.440
yeah,

3372
01:24:40.530 --> 01:24:41.200
not necessarily by me,

3373
01:24:41.250 --> 01:24:42.910
but like if you think about it societally,

3374
01:24:42.970 --> 01:24:44.580
that like that would actually be a win.

3375
01:24:44.890 --> 01:24:47.630
And so you would build a health and wellness economy and in my view,

3376
01:24:47.650 --> 01:24:49.350
you'd actually have a new currency for that.

3377
01:24:49.790 --> 01:24:50.120
Then you have,

3378
01:24:50.140 --> 01:24:53.620
you'd have an arts and creativity economy and have a new currency for that.

3379
01:24:53.910 --> 01:24:54.890
And then you'd have

3380
01:24:55.150 --> 01:24:57.660
uh an education and nurturing and caretaking economy,

3381
01:24:57.680 --> 01:24:58.890
you'd have a currency for that.

3382
01:24:59.150 --> 01:25:00.030
That is what

3383
01:25:00.190 --> 01:25:02.930
a market that's actually designed to optimize for us

3384
01:25:03.070 --> 01:25:04.070
would look like.

3385
01:25:04.350 --> 01:25:06.290
In the absence of any of those things.

3386
01:25:06.790 --> 01:25:09.900
This market will optimize for is capital efficiency.

3387
01:25:10.550 --> 01:25:12.840
How can I get the work done as quickly

3388
01:25:12.990 --> 01:25:14.220
and cheaply as possible?

3389
01:25:14.310 --> 01:25:15.790
And the answer to that is going to be AI.

3390
01:25:15.990 --> 01:25:16.460
I just wonder.

3391
01:25:17.390 --> 01:25:18.410
Thank you so much.

3392
01:25:18.590 --> 01:25:18.850
Thank you,

3393
01:25:18.950 --> 01:25:19.470
Nathan.

3394
01:25:19.800 --> 01:25:20.340
It's great.

3395
01:25:20.520 --> 01:25:21.380
I thought that might be true.

3396
01:25:21.590 --> 01:25:23.660
321.

3397
01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:27.290
Hey there.

3398
01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:27.670
Hey,

3399
01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:28.350
nice to meet you.

3400
01:25:28.440 --> 01:25:29.110
Nice to meet you too.

3401
01:25:29.280 --> 01:25:29.670
Welcome.

3402
01:25:29.800 --> 01:25:31.330
I actually want to

3403
01:25:31.880 --> 01:25:34.140
refer back to some of your other claims

3404
01:25:34.320 --> 01:25:35.640
to contend

3405
01:25:35.920 --> 01:25:36.870
with your current claim.

3406
01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:37.420
Ultimately,

3407
01:25:37.440 --> 01:25:38.100
I think

3408
01:25:38.280 --> 01:25:39.660
there are different levels

3409
01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:42.020
of uh tolerance that people have

3410
01:25:42.190 --> 01:25:43.710
for their circumstances,

3411
01:25:44.240 --> 01:25:46.980
and if the market only optimizes for

3412
01:25:47.240 --> 01:25:48.260
productivity

3413
01:25:48.480 --> 01:25:49.180
and

3414
01:25:49.480 --> 01:25:50.430
um efficiency.

3415
01:25:51.090 --> 01:25:53.810
There's going to be a threshold that it passes

3416
01:25:54.090 --> 01:25:54.760
where

3417
01:25:55.000 --> 01:25:57.450
human dignity being negatively affected

3418
01:25:57.730 --> 01:25:58.910
has a reverse effect.

3419
01:25:59.130 --> 01:25:59.590
You've

3420
01:25:59.730 --> 01:26:00.640
referred to malady,

3421
01:26:00.730 --> 01:26:02.480
I mean some of your other arguments,

3422
01:26:02.570 --> 01:26:03.550
and I agree with that.

3423
01:26:03.690 --> 01:26:05.040
People are going to riot,

3424
01:26:05.210 --> 01:26:05.360
uh,

3425
01:26:05.490 --> 01:26:06.670
people are going to

3426
01:26:07.730 --> 01:26:09.230
just go into complete discord.

3427
01:26:09.460 --> 01:26:12.310
That's going to completely disrupt any of the

3428
01:26:12.470 --> 01:26:14.730
market efficiencies that we would see from AI.

3429
01:26:14.810 --> 01:26:16.000
I'm enjoying this conversation a lot,

3430
01:26:16.060 --> 01:26:16.320
Donnie.

3431
01:26:16.410 --> 01:26:16.750
So,

3432
01:26:17.090 --> 01:26:17.960
so what you're saying is like,

3433
01:26:18.050 --> 01:26:18.440
look,

3434
01:26:19.040 --> 01:26:19.460
If

3435
01:26:19.640 --> 01:26:21.170
AI stampedes

3436
01:26:21.520 --> 01:26:22.470
human dignity

3437
01:26:22.710 --> 01:26:23.310
super badly,

3438
01:26:23.400 --> 01:26:26.510
then there's gonna be a backlash and then you're gonna wind up in a different place,

3439
01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:28.270
so it will not stampede human dignity.

3440
01:26:28.440 --> 01:26:28.620
Yes,

3441
01:26:28.720 --> 01:26:30.780
I think there's going to be um

3442
01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:31.990
an inflection point

3443
01:26:32.120 --> 01:26:32.700
where

3444
01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:33.560
it might,

3445
01:26:33.800 --> 01:26:35.300
the original goal will be.

3446
01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:36.740
Productivity and profit,

3447
01:26:36.790 --> 01:26:37.120
of course,

3448
01:26:37.310 --> 01:26:37.460
yeah,

3449
01:26:37.630 --> 01:26:38.380
has always been the case,

3450
01:26:38.470 --> 01:26:40.850
but because the scales are so radically different,

3451
01:26:41.110 --> 01:26:42.210
we're not going to see,

3452
01:26:42.350 --> 01:26:42.580
um,

3453
01:26:42.630 --> 01:26:44.420
the complacency that we see now where

3454
01:26:44.790 --> 01:26:47.090
enough people are satisfied with their living conditions.

3455
01:26:48.460 --> 01:26:50.540
I love this argument so much because it's literally

3456
01:26:50.540 --> 01:26:52.410
how I spend most of my waking hours.

3457
01:26:53.240 --> 01:26:53.300
No,

3458
01:26:53.350 --> 01:26:53.950
genuinely,

3459
01:26:54.150 --> 01:26:54.580
so check it out.

3460
01:26:54.710 --> 01:26:55.170
Check it out.

3461
01:26:55.490 --> 01:26:55.640
Um,

3462
01:26:55.770 --> 01:26:56.720
what Donnie's saying is,

3463
01:26:56.850 --> 01:26:57.300
look,

3464
01:26:57.730 --> 01:27:00.430
like if AI continues to optimize for,

3465
01:27:00.690 --> 01:27:00.760
uh,

3466
01:27:00.930 --> 01:27:01.800
the almighty dollar,

3467
01:27:01.890 --> 01:27:03.880
then more and more people are going to get pissed off and ticked off,

3468
01:27:03.900 --> 01:27:04.640
and then they're gonna

3469
01:27:04.830 --> 01:27:05.120
say like,

3470
01:27:05.210 --> 01:27:05.320
hey,

3471
01:27:05.410 --> 01:27:06.640
we need to change it and make it,

3472
01:27:06.730 --> 01:27:06.960
make it,

3473
01:27:07.170 --> 01:27:08.270
make it so that things are different.

3474
01:27:08.370 --> 01:27:11.000
I ran for president on that case,

3475
01:27:11.250 --> 01:27:11.850
more or less.

3476
01:27:11.970 --> 01:27:13.430
One of my great learnings.

3477
01:27:13.690 --> 01:27:16.660
From both that experience and the past number of years

3478
01:27:16.820 --> 01:27:20.670
has been that the American political system is not really designed to solve

3479
01:27:20.670 --> 01:27:24.300
our problems or optimize for human dignity in the way that you're describing.

3480
01:27:24.480 --> 01:27:27.780
It's actually designed to kind of divide us and pit us against each other

3481
01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.580
and refract our problems and just uh and

3482
01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:33.660
and continue to let the mega corps

3483
01:27:33.860 --> 01:27:34.680
have their way.

3484
01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:36.830
So what you're suggesting is.

3485
01:27:37.020 --> 01:27:38.710
One thing that I would love for you to be right about,

3486
01:27:38.770 --> 01:27:39.740
which is that look,

3487
01:27:40.090 --> 01:27:42.990
people are going to rise up and demand real change this time,

3488
01:27:43.010 --> 01:27:44.630
and that's going to have to come from some

3489
01:27:44.650 --> 01:27:46.940
kind of modernization or change to the political system,

3490
01:27:46.970 --> 01:27:47.530
in my opinion,

3491
01:27:47.660 --> 01:27:50.390
because I do not think that the current American political system actually

3492
01:27:50.640 --> 01:27:51.680
can solve this problem.

3493
01:27:51.810 --> 01:27:52.520
So you need a different,

3494
01:27:52.650 --> 01:27:53.240
better version.

3495
01:27:53.390 --> 01:27:54.200
So if you agree with that,

3496
01:27:54.250 --> 01:27:55.210
then you and I are totally,

3497
01:27:55.330 --> 01:27:57.520
so there's a slight deviation in our agreement.

3498
01:27:57.650 --> 01:27:57.920
So,

3499
01:27:58.690 --> 01:27:58.800
yeah,

3500
01:27:58.970 --> 01:27:59.630
so I think

3501
01:27:59.770 --> 01:28:00.240
it's not going.

3502
01:28:00.380 --> 01:28:01.980
To be about demanding change,

3503
01:28:02.060 --> 01:28:03.480
it's going to be forcing change.

3504
01:28:03.630 --> 01:28:05.250
That's like ultimately where we're going to end.

3505
01:28:05.450 --> 01:28:05.460
No,

3506
01:28:05.540 --> 01:28:05.690
I'm,

3507
01:28:05.740 --> 01:28:06.490
I'm with you there too,

3508
01:28:06.580 --> 01:28:06.650
man.

3509
01:28:07.070 --> 01:28:07.170
I love you.

3510
01:28:07.380 --> 01:28:07.890
We love you and

3511
01:28:08.660 --> 01:28:08.890
Johnny,

3512
01:28:08.980 --> 01:28:11.310
I knew you were a smart man before you sat down.

3513
01:28:11.380 --> 01:28:12.290
Then after you introduced yourself,

3514
01:28:12.340 --> 01:28:12.690
I was like,

3515
01:28:12.740 --> 01:28:13.110
jeez man,

3516
01:28:13.180 --> 01:28:14.640
neuroscience from Johns Hopkins.

3517
01:28:14.900 --> 01:28:16.360
I better not disagree with this guy.

3518
01:28:16.580 --> 01:28:18.040
And it turns out I don't.

3519
01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:18.960
Yeah,

3520
01:28:19.450 --> 01:28:19.460
I

3521
01:28:19.620 --> 01:28:20.730
have to pause here.

3522
01:28:21.170 --> 01:28:22.290
You've been voted out,

3523
01:28:22.420 --> 01:28:22.730
OK,

3524
01:28:22.940 --> 01:28:23.680
dude,

3525
01:28:24.260 --> 01:28:25.320
I hope you're right.

3526
01:28:26.970 --> 01:28:29.250
I literally spent all my time trying to make you right.

3527
01:28:29.470 --> 01:28:30.880
If you'd like to be the next debater,

3528
01:28:31.010 --> 01:28:34.760
please get to that chair in 321.

3529
01:28:37.060 --> 01:28:37.570
Hi,

3530
01:28:37.820 --> 01:28:38.500
I'm Jeremiah.

3531
01:28:38.620 --> 01:28:39.170
Hey Jeremiah,

3532
01:28:39.220 --> 01:28:39.610
Andrew,

3533
01:28:39.740 --> 01:28:40.250
nice to meet you.

3534
01:28:40.340 --> 01:28:41.660
I'd love to hear a little bit about you.

3535
01:28:41.820 --> 01:28:42.130
Yeah,

3536
01:28:42.300 --> 01:28:43.940
so I'm a psychotherapist,

3537
01:28:44.220 --> 01:28:46.690
and I think before we go into the topic,

3538
01:28:46.940 --> 01:28:48.800
can I address a couple of things that you said about,

3539
01:28:48.940 --> 01:28:49.210
um,

3540
01:28:49.420 --> 01:28:50.010
psychotherapy?

3541
01:28:50.700 --> 01:28:51.040
Yeah,

3542
01:28:51.340 --> 01:28:52.260
so I would.

3543
01:28:52.600 --> 01:28:53.030
that

3544
01:28:53.360 --> 01:28:54.230
my profession,

3545
01:28:54.400 --> 01:28:58.300
we are probably going to be the last to be replaced just because of all the human

3546
01:28:58.440 --> 01:28:59.980
interactions that's required.

3547
01:29:00.180 --> 01:29:02.930
But you mentioned before that the reason why

3548
01:29:02.930 --> 01:29:05.540
they felt more comfortable with the AI was because

3549
01:29:05.720 --> 01:29:08.190
they just felt more comfortable talking to an AI than a human.

3550
01:29:08.480 --> 01:29:09.940
The reason being is because

3551
01:29:10.080 --> 01:29:11.630
the um the military,

3552
01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:13.580
I might be telling military secrets,

3553
01:29:13.840 --> 01:29:16.070
the military contracts out

3554
01:29:16.200 --> 01:29:19.070
to therapists to talk with their uh military personnel,

3555
01:29:19.370 --> 01:29:21.580
but what people don't know is that even

3556
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:24.380
though we're sworn to privacy and confidentiality,

3557
01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:26.340
not when it comes to the military,

3558
01:29:26.520 --> 01:29:28.680
we have to send our notes to.

3559
01:29:28.700 --> 01:29:30.120
Their superiors and then

3560
01:29:30.480 --> 01:29:31.390
and guess what,

3561
01:29:31.960 --> 01:29:32.220
right,

3562
01:29:32.250 --> 01:29:32.770
and the,

3563
01:29:32.890 --> 01:29:33.590
the vets,

3564
01:29:33.730 --> 01:29:35.000
if they get depression,

3565
01:29:35.210 --> 01:29:35.680
anxiety,

3566
01:29:35.770 --> 01:29:36.800
PTSD on the job,

3567
01:29:36.850 --> 01:29:37.630
they're discharged.

3568
01:29:37.690 --> 01:29:38.230
So that's that.

3569
01:29:38.330 --> 01:29:38.520
OK,

3570
01:29:38.650 --> 01:29:40.160
so now what thank you for sharing that Jeremiah.

3571
01:29:40.210 --> 01:29:40.340
Yeah,

3572
01:29:40.370 --> 01:29:40.730
of course.

3573
01:29:41.010 --> 01:29:41.190
Also,

3574
01:29:41.210 --> 01:29:42.230
I just want to say quickly,

3575
01:29:42.650 --> 01:29:43.360
my brother,

3576
01:29:43.410 --> 01:29:43.750
um,

3577
01:29:43.890 --> 01:29:45.360
was trained as a clinical psychologist,

3578
01:29:45.450 --> 01:29:46.310
so I have like huge,

3579
01:29:46.610 --> 01:29:46.840
uh,

3580
01:29:47.050 --> 01:29:48.410
regard and respect for the work you do.

3581
01:29:48.530 --> 01:29:48.880
Thank you.

3582
01:29:49.240 --> 01:29:49.580
Um,

3583
01:29:49.720 --> 01:29:50.100
so,

3584
01:29:50.220 --> 01:29:51.110
what I wanna say is,

3585
01:29:51.280 --> 01:29:53.820
I think we're looking at dignity in the wrong way.

3586
01:29:54.010 --> 01:29:54.820
So the thing is,

3587
01:29:55.120 --> 01:29:58.770
most people are not working in a job that they really want to be in,

3588
01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:01.750
and I'll say most because I'm not gonna use absolutes like you did.

3589
01:30:01.830 --> 01:30:02.790
I'm gonna say all,

3590
01:30:02.960 --> 01:30:03.350
cause I mean,

3591
01:30:03.400 --> 01:30:04.830
that's a cognitive distortion.

3592
01:30:05.040 --> 01:30:06.190
The world is not black and white,

3593
01:30:06.240 --> 01:30:07.550
it's 50 shades of gray.

3594
01:30:07.680 --> 01:30:08.110
I don't know if you guys,

3595
01:30:08.240 --> 01:30:08.350
OK,

3596
01:30:08.480 --> 01:30:09.020
there we go.

3597
01:30:09.360 --> 01:30:10.140
So the thing is,

3598
01:30:10.400 --> 01:30:10.990
the dignity,

3599
01:30:11.130 --> 01:30:11.750
so if,

3600
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:14.570
if people are not in jobs that they really want to be doing,

3601
01:30:14.860 --> 01:30:16.730
Then they're not gonna be really dignified or

3602
01:30:17.000 --> 01:30:18.640
having a sense of self-worth in it,

3603
01:30:18.730 --> 01:30:19.040
right?

3604
01:30:19.380 --> 01:30:19.710
So

3605
01:30:19.840 --> 01:30:22.850
we need to shift that to make people have dignity and worth

3606
01:30:23.010 --> 01:30:24.320
in roles other than that,

3607
01:30:24.460 --> 01:30:24.640
right?

3608
01:30:24.890 --> 01:30:25.680
A good father,

3609
01:30:25.810 --> 01:30:26.510
a good husband,

3610
01:30:26.650 --> 01:30:27.230
good wife,

3611
01:30:27.490 --> 01:30:28.110
good friend.

3612
01:30:28.450 --> 01:30:30.880
So what I will bring this whole thing together is

3613
01:30:30.880 --> 01:30:34.070
I actually believe that AI with the displacement of jobs,

3614
01:30:34.310 --> 01:30:35.600
so I use Waymo,

3615
01:30:35.810 --> 01:30:36.880
not Uber and Lyft.

3616
01:30:37.160 --> 01:30:38.800
So let's say an Uber and Lyft driver,

3617
01:30:38.930 --> 01:30:39.160
right?

3618
01:30:39.370 --> 01:30:42.060
They might not have a lot of dignity and worth transporting people,

3619
01:30:42.290 --> 01:30:44.560
but Because there are professions right now,

3620
01:30:44.740 --> 01:30:45.850
like health care,

3621
01:30:46.100 --> 01:30:46.910
mental health,

3622
01:30:47.060 --> 01:30:48.040
elder care,

3623
01:30:48.460 --> 01:30:50.050
we need that stuff now.

3624
01:30:50.100 --> 01:30:51.240
We need to be filled now.

3625
01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:53.010
So when people get displaced,

3626
01:30:53.180 --> 01:30:53.330
right,

3627
01:30:53.420 --> 01:30:54.170
and they're unemployed,

3628
01:30:54.220 --> 01:30:55.920
which they're not gonna be very dignified

3629
01:30:56.120 --> 01:30:57.020
being unemployed,

3630
01:30:57.260 --> 01:30:59.160
they can assume these positions.

3631
01:30:59.300 --> 01:31:00.920
Helping fields have proven,

3632
01:31:01.160 --> 01:31:01.940
fact check me,

3633
01:31:02.190 --> 01:31:05.800
people that work in helping fields feel the purpose that you were talking about.

3634
01:31:05.900 --> 01:31:08.710
They're gonna feel more self-dignity and higher self-worth

3635
01:31:08.850 --> 01:31:10.210
working and filling these positions.

3636
01:31:10.380 --> 01:31:10.780
That we need,

3637
01:31:10.870 --> 01:31:11.100
right?

3638
01:31:11.390 --> 01:31:11.700
Teachers,

3639
01:31:11.750 --> 01:31:12.930
I think are still teaching

3640
01:31:13.130 --> 01:31:14.570
one teacher to 30 students.

3641
01:31:14.710 --> 01:31:16.990
It should be like one teacher to 15 students,

3642
01:31:17.110 --> 01:31:17.340
right?

3643
01:31:17.790 --> 01:31:20.570
So if we spend money to create more schools,

3644
01:31:20.830 --> 01:31:21.090
more,

3645
01:31:21.230 --> 01:31:21.380
um,

3646
01:31:21.430 --> 01:31:22.180
elderly care,

3647
01:31:22.270 --> 01:31:22.420
more,

3648
01:31:22.550 --> 01:31:22.620
um,

3649
01:31:22.790 --> 01:31:23.740
skilled nursing facilities,

3650
01:31:23.870 --> 01:31:24.620
all these things,

3651
01:31:24.790 --> 01:31:26.490
then these displaced workers

3652
01:31:26.660 --> 01:31:30.050
will have jobs and their dignity and self-worth will improve

3653
01:31:30.180 --> 01:31:31.510
just from their job alone,

3654
01:31:31.710 --> 01:31:34.370
besides what I said before of them trying to find different

3655
01:31:34.470 --> 01:31:36.670
roles to make them their self-esteem improve.

3656
01:31:36.830 --> 01:31:37.940
I love the direction.

3657
01:31:38.530 --> 01:31:39.390
Agree

3658
01:31:39.530 --> 01:31:43.150
that more of us should be spending our time making people

3659
01:31:43.290 --> 01:31:43.960
healthier,

3660
01:31:44.130 --> 01:31:45.050
connected,

3661
01:31:45.250 --> 01:31:46.160
better educated,

3662
01:31:46.290 --> 01:31:46.650
etc.

3663
01:31:46.690 --> 01:31:47.120
etc.

3664
01:31:47.370 --> 01:31:49.470
I'm going to argue that you just made

3665
01:31:49.640 --> 01:31:50.690
my case for me.

3666
01:31:51.210 --> 01:31:51.400
Um,

3667
01:31:51.570 --> 01:31:54.560
which is that the market will optimize for productivity and growth,

3668
01:31:54.650 --> 01:31:55.640
not human dignity.

3669
01:31:56.050 --> 01:31:56.200
Um,

3670
01:31:56.450 --> 01:31:59.200
so all of the helping professions that you're describing,

3671
01:31:59.450 --> 01:32:00.470
one could argue,

3672
01:32:00.810 --> 01:32:03.780
are under-resourced in part because the market

3673
01:32:04.060 --> 01:32:04.670
does not

3674
01:32:04.880 --> 01:32:05.940
recognize

3675
01:32:06.080 --> 01:32:08.680
the well-being that is being brought through them.

3676
01:32:09.040 --> 01:32:09.270
Um,

3677
01:32:09.440 --> 01:32:10.880
adequately or appropriately,

3678
01:32:11.360 --> 01:32:11.630
and the,

3679
01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:13.570
and the example I could use

3680
01:32:13.800 --> 01:32:15.460
is that if you're an excellent teacher,

3681
01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:17.500
studies have shown that you produce

3682
01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:18.850
a ton of value

3683
01:32:19.160 --> 01:32:20.830
for your students and,

3684
01:32:20.850 --> 01:32:20.910
uh,

3685
01:32:21.080 --> 01:32:21.390
um,

3686
01:32:21.560 --> 01:32:22.310
over their lifetime,

3687
01:32:22.400 --> 01:32:24.010
but that teacher does not get rewarded.

3688
01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:24.840
My wife,

3689
01:32:25.000 --> 01:32:25.420
who is,

3690
01:32:25.560 --> 01:32:25.860
um,

3691
01:32:26.040 --> 01:32:28.510
at home very often with our autistic son,

3692
01:32:28.680 --> 01:32:30.810
the market values her work at zero.

3693
01:32:31.320 --> 01:32:33.060
So I think you and I are completely

3694
01:32:33.280 --> 01:32:33.590
aligned.

3695
01:32:34.070 --> 01:32:36.020
In that the market does not reward

3696
01:32:36.380 --> 01:32:37.780
human dignity in the way that it should.

3697
01:32:38.310 --> 01:32:38.460
Yeah,

3698
01:32:38.630 --> 01:32:39.020
and I,

3699
01:32:39.150 --> 01:32:39.860
but what I'm saying is,

3700
01:32:39.910 --> 01:32:40.220
I mean,

3701
01:32:40.490 --> 01:32:40.800
that,

3702
01:32:40.820 --> 01:32:41.860
that is sort of obvious,

3703
01:32:41.910 --> 01:32:44.370
but what I'm saying is that people need to

3704
01:32:44.470 --> 01:32:46.850
get their dignity and worth outside of work,

3705
01:32:47.500 --> 01:32:47.680
right?

3706
01:32:47.870 --> 01:32:48.210
So,

3707
01:32:48.430 --> 01:32:48.490
they,

3708
01:32:48.670 --> 01:32:50.100
you said AI is displacing them with,

3709
01:32:50.150 --> 01:32:50.300
I,

3710
01:32:50.430 --> 01:32:51.180
we already talked about it,

3711
01:32:51.260 --> 01:32:51.580
AI,

3712
01:32:51.630 --> 01:32:52.130
um,

3713
01:32:52.310 --> 01:32:52.800
Uber,

3714
01:32:53.110 --> 01:32:53.890
all that stuff.

3715
01:32:54.130 --> 01:32:55.650
So what I'm saying is that they can

3716
01:32:55.750 --> 01:32:57.580
reclaim their dignity and worth

3717
01:32:57.750 --> 01:32:58.330
and

3718
01:32:58.700 --> 01:33:01.640
Improve it by going in these fields that are already

3719
01:33:01.820 --> 01:33:02.850
kind of short staffed.

3720
01:33:03.100 --> 01:33:03.270
Um,

3721
01:33:03.460 --> 01:33:03.970
pause here.

3722
01:33:04.020 --> 01:33:05.460
We're out of time for this claim

3723
01:33:06.020 --> 01:33:06.530
so much.

3724
01:33:06.680 --> 01:33:06.810
I,

3725
01:33:06.900 --> 01:33:07.020
I'm,

3726
01:33:07.220 --> 01:33:08.140
I'm pretty much on board.

3727
01:33:10.790 --> 01:33:11.590
In the sense of like,

3728
01:33:11.670 --> 01:33:12.070
you know,

3729
01:33:12.350 --> 01:33:13.450
I would love to fuel human

3730
01:33:13.550 --> 01:33:13.680
performance.

3731
01:33:14.030 --> 01:33:14.500
All right,

3732
01:33:14.590 --> 01:33:16.020
so now it is time for the final.

3733
01:33:16.500 --> 01:33:16.650
debate,

3734
01:33:16.820 --> 01:33:17.690
great debate so far.

3735
01:33:17.780 --> 01:33:19.600
It's been like a friendly conversation.

3736
01:33:20.190 --> 01:33:20.850
If you're enjoying it.

3737
01:33:20.930 --> 01:33:21.130
You know,

3738
01:33:21.150 --> 01:33:25.070
I have boxing gloves strapped to the underside of this table,

3739
01:33:25.540 --> 01:33:26.230
but didn't need them.

3740
01:33:26.300 --> 01:33:26.850
Don't need them.

3741
01:33:26.900 --> 01:33:27.450
I don't think so.

3742
01:33:27.500 --> 01:33:29.250
Maybe because now it's time for the final debate.

3743
01:33:29.500 --> 01:33:30.410
use them for defense.

3744
01:33:30.860 --> 01:33:33.330
You get 10 minutes now uninterrupted.

3745
01:33:33.620 --> 01:33:35.730
So take your time and look around the circle.

3746
01:33:36.250 --> 01:33:39.020
And check for anyone you wanna continue the conversation with,

3747
01:33:39.050 --> 01:33:40.120
someone who impressed you.

3748
01:33:40.170 --> 01:33:40.670
You know what?

3749
01:33:40.730 --> 01:33:45.730
I enjoyed my conversation with the hosts of uh MTS,

3750
01:33:45.850 --> 01:33:46.000
um,

3751
01:33:46.050 --> 01:33:46.250
but I,

3752
01:33:46.290 --> 01:33:47.530
I feel like I didn't have enough time with,

3753
01:33:47.570 --> 01:33:48.180
um,

3754
01:33:48.250 --> 01:33:48.920
Sophia,

3755
01:33:49.080 --> 01:33:49.760
come on up.

3756
01:33:49.930 --> 01:33:50.040
Yeah,

3757
01:33:50.130 --> 01:33:51.160
let's give her a round of applause,

3758
01:33:51.240 --> 01:33:52.200
yay.

3759
01:33:52.950 --> 01:33:53.310
Pleasure.

3760
01:33:53.780 --> 01:33:54.630
It's great to see you again.

3761
01:33:54.940 --> 01:33:55.170
OK,

3762
01:33:55.340 --> 01:33:55.690
Andrew,

3763
01:33:55.820 --> 01:33:57.100
why did you choose Sophia?

3764
01:33:57.180 --> 01:33:59.960
I felt like we were having a good conversation that was cut short.

3765
01:34:00.220 --> 01:34:02.920
She had nuanced and smart viewpoints,

3766
01:34:02.940 --> 01:34:03.210
and I,

3767
01:34:03.260 --> 01:34:05.010
I wanted to be able to explore them further.

3768
01:34:05.460 --> 01:34:09.520
My surrounded claim is that being an AI optimist is necessary

3769
01:34:09.540 --> 01:34:13.280
to get through this next period of immense technological transformation.

3770
01:34:13.490 --> 01:34:14.570
I'm not sure I entirely disagree.

3771
01:34:14.730 --> 01:34:15.070
With you,

3772
01:34:15.210 --> 01:34:15.400
um,

3773
01:34:15.530 --> 01:34:16.120
being honest,

3774
01:34:16.370 --> 01:34:18.640
because I think being optimistic is a very good thing,

3775
01:34:18.890 --> 01:34:19.000
uh,

3776
01:34:19.130 --> 01:34:19.800
in our own lives,

3777
01:34:19.940 --> 01:34:22.460
certainly if you're an entrepreneur or the head of an organization,

3778
01:34:22.610 --> 01:34:23.600
if you come in with

3779
01:34:23.850 --> 01:34:26.200
doom and gloom and pessimism and like woe is me,

3780
01:34:26.290 --> 01:34:26.710
then

3781
01:34:26.900 --> 01:34:27.730
no one wants to be around you,

3782
01:34:27.850 --> 01:34:28.570
no one wants to listen to you,

3783
01:34:28.590 --> 01:34:29.960
you're probably not gonna get a whole lot done.

3784
01:34:30.010 --> 01:34:30.250
So I,

3785
01:34:30.370 --> 01:34:31.690
I think being optimistic

3786
01:34:32.010 --> 01:34:33.590
in that sense is

3787
01:34:33.890 --> 01:34:34.790
the right approach.

3788
01:34:34.930 --> 01:34:36.380
What frustrates me.

3789
01:34:36.700 --> 01:34:38.700
Is when folks adopt

3790
01:34:39.040 --> 01:34:42.910
uh attitudes about AI that strike me as overly optimistic

3791
01:34:43.040 --> 01:34:46.710
um or not grounded in empirical fact and reality.

3792
01:34:46.840 --> 01:34:46.950
Uh,

3793
01:34:47.080 --> 01:34:47.940
there's one

3794
01:34:48.360 --> 01:34:51.350
statement um from a journalist named Upton Sinclair

3795
01:34:51.350 --> 01:34:52.670
that I think some of you guys remember.

3796
01:34:52.760 --> 01:34:55.180
It's like it's hard to convince a man of a fact

3797
01:34:55.400 --> 01:34:58.540
when his living depends upon him not believing it.

3798
01:34:59.620 --> 01:34:59.680
Like,

3799
01:34:59.840 --> 01:35:00.190
like that,

3800
01:35:00.240 --> 01:35:03.420
I think that's actually a pretty good summary of some of the

3801
01:35:03.610 --> 01:35:05.660
frustration I feel with some folks in the space.

3802
01:35:05.800 --> 01:35:06.030
Yeah,

3803
01:35:06.160 --> 01:35:07.780
I definitely understand that,

3804
01:35:07.800 --> 01:35:11.350
and I would say one of the misconceptions about being an AI optimist

3805
01:35:11.350 --> 01:35:15.630
is that you're blindly accepting everything that everyone says is going to happen,

3806
01:35:15.720 --> 01:35:19.390
and it actually means how do we amplify our own agency?

3807
01:35:19.480 --> 01:35:21.390
How do we actually act on that agency?

3808
01:35:21.560 --> 01:35:22.630
And I think technology,

3809
01:35:22.910 --> 01:35:23.710
especially AI,

3810
01:35:23.880 --> 01:35:27.960
is one of the Best tools to empower ourselves to act on our agency,

3811
01:35:27.980 --> 01:35:29.720
and I would urge everyone in this room,

3812
01:35:30.090 --> 01:35:30.800
everyone watching,

3813
01:35:30.930 --> 01:35:32.360
every single person in this world,

3814
01:35:32.490 --> 01:35:35.390
they do have an important role to play in shaping the future,

3815
01:35:35.570 --> 01:35:37.960
and pessimism is what keeps them powerless.

3816
01:35:38.090 --> 01:35:41.270
Pessimism and fear mongering is a a tactic

3817
01:35:41.400 --> 01:35:42.000
from governments,

3818
01:35:42.130 --> 01:35:43.470
authoritarian governments,

3819
01:35:43.570 --> 01:35:43.910
to

3820
01:35:44.010 --> 01:35:45.590
get us to not want

3821
01:35:45.730 --> 01:35:46.240
to act.

3822
01:35:46.290 --> 01:35:46.480
All right,

3823
01:35:46.580 --> 01:35:46.950
check it out.

3824
01:35:46.970 --> 01:35:47.290
Check it out.

3825
01:35:47.450 --> 01:35:47.560
I'm,

3826
01:35:47.730 --> 01:35:48.700
I'm going to like try and

3827
01:35:48.810 --> 01:35:49.790
layer layer this a little bit.

3828
01:35:50.420 --> 01:35:52.090
So I think it's possible,

3829
01:35:52.170 --> 01:35:54.290
possible to be personally optimistic

3830
01:35:54.580 --> 01:35:57.840
and then also clear-eyed about the magnitude of the challenges,

3831
01:35:57.900 --> 01:35:58.050
uh,

3832
01:35:58.180 --> 01:35:59.600
and the disruption and the changes.

3833
01:35:59.660 --> 01:36:01.240
And so I think most people know

3834
01:36:01.580 --> 01:36:02.040
that,

3835
01:36:02.260 --> 01:36:02.460
um,

3836
01:36:02.540 --> 01:36:03.560
I ran for office,

3837
01:36:03.820 --> 01:36:05.130
and I think if you run for office,

3838
01:36:05.220 --> 01:36:07.320
what you do is you expand your lens

3839
01:36:07.500 --> 01:36:08.470
to include

3840
01:36:08.650 --> 01:36:09.360
people

3841
01:36:09.540 --> 01:36:12.770
that are going to get kicked to the curb or on the outside looking in or like,

3842
01:36:12.860 --> 01:36:13.010
you know,

3843
01:36:13.140 --> 01:36:15.330
didn't graduate from college and aren't realistically going to

3844
01:36:15.330 --> 01:36:17.480
be a beneficiary of this change or that change.

3845
01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:17.990
Um,

3846
01:36:18.130 --> 01:36:19.630
so on a micro level,

3847
01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:21.110
being optimistic,

3848
01:36:21.130 --> 01:36:22.110
I think is a plus.

3849
01:36:22.400 --> 01:36:23.320
On a macro level,

3850
01:36:23.400 --> 01:36:24.190
if your job,

3851
01:36:24.400 --> 01:36:25.060
and in my case,

3852
01:36:25.240 --> 01:36:25.390
you know,

3853
01:36:25.440 --> 01:36:27.230
it's like a job I kind of took on for myself,

3854
01:36:28.440 --> 01:36:29.730
but if your job is to

3855
01:36:29.920 --> 01:36:31.220
look out for people,

3856
01:36:31.530 --> 01:36:31.910
then I,

3857
01:36:31.960 --> 01:36:32.700
I think,

3858
01:36:32.960 --> 01:36:33.230
um,

3859
01:36:33.480 --> 01:36:34.030
being

3860
01:36:34.320 --> 01:36:37.320
clear-eyed or realistic or even slightly pessimistic

3861
01:36:37.430 --> 01:36:39.710
because one of the things that I've sensed in American life,

3862
01:36:39.800 --> 01:36:41.180
I just wanna throw this out to people,

3863
01:36:41.440 --> 01:36:43.240
is that there's actually a bias

3864
01:36:43.480 --> 01:36:44.160
towards.

3865
01:36:44.500 --> 01:36:46.370
Kind of like ad it'll be all right,

3866
01:36:46.440 --> 01:36:46.650
like,

3867
01:36:46.700 --> 01:36:47.450
like da da da,

3868
01:36:47.500 --> 01:36:51.930
it'll figure itself out like the market knows all and the rest of it that pervades a

3869
01:36:51.930 --> 01:36:54.130
lot of our thinking and institutions in part

3870
01:36:54.130 --> 01:36:56.880
because we're all brainwashed into being like you,

3871
01:36:57.100 --> 01:36:57.290
you,

3872
01:36:57.420 --> 01:36:57.570
you,

3873
01:36:57.660 --> 01:36:57.850
you,

3874
01:36:57.980 --> 01:36:58.170
you,

3875
01:36:58.300 --> 01:36:59.040
wherever you are,

3876
01:36:59.260 --> 01:37:00.320
you must be

3877
01:37:00.740 --> 01:37:02.020
market optimized.

3878
01:37:02.220 --> 01:37:02.810
And so,

3879
01:37:02.980 --> 01:37:03.250
you know,

3880
01:37:03.380 --> 01:37:04.050
and then I,

3881
01:37:04.180 --> 01:37:05.450
I'm gonna say realistically,

3882
01:37:05.500 --> 01:37:08.000
like a lot of people are gonna fail that test,

3883
01:37:08.300 --> 01:37:08.500
um,

3884
01:37:08.730 --> 01:37:11.010
because the bar to be market optimized is gonna go up.

3885
01:37:11.170 --> 01:37:11.370
Up,

3886
01:37:11.390 --> 01:37:11.430
up,

3887
01:37:11.520 --> 01:37:11.820
up,

3888
01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:12.550
up,

3889
01:37:12.720 --> 01:37:12.910
um,

3890
01:37:13.040 --> 01:37:16.150
and so if you go to an individual entrepreneur and they're like,

3891
01:37:16.220 --> 01:37:16.350
hey,

3892
01:37:16.400 --> 01:37:17.490
I'm gonna be optimistic,

3893
01:37:17.560 --> 01:37:17.840
I'm like,

3894
01:37:17.880 --> 01:37:17.990
yeah,

3895
01:37:18.080 --> 01:37:18.230
yeah,

3896
01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:19.060
go for it.

3897
01:37:19.280 --> 01:37:22.750
But then if you want to try and account for the whole of society,

3898
01:37:22.840 --> 01:37:23.910
then you'd have to look and be like,

3899
01:37:24.000 --> 01:37:24.340
OK,

3900
01:37:24.750 --> 01:37:26.560
like what do I really think is happening here?

3901
01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:26.830
Yeah,

3902
01:37:26.990 --> 01:37:27.390
definitely.

3903
01:37:27.520 --> 01:37:27.860
So

3904
01:37:27.960 --> 01:37:29.430
what I'm hearing is that we agree that at

3905
01:37:29.430 --> 01:37:31.470
the individual level it's helpful to be optimistic,

3906
01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:32.830
but at the macro level,

3907
01:37:33.000 --> 01:37:33.790
that's hurtful.

3908
01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:34.590
Is that correct?

3909
01:37:34.680 --> 01:37:35.710
Do I understand your claim correct?

3910
01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:35.990
Um,

3911
01:37:36.200 --> 01:37:36.380
so,

3912
01:37:36.560 --> 01:37:37.710
and even at the macro level.

3913
01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:38.650
Someone says to me like,

3914
01:37:38.740 --> 01:37:38.930
hey,

3915
01:37:39.140 --> 01:37:40.270
AI will grow the,

3916
01:37:40.300 --> 01:37:41.760
the top line of value creation.

3917
01:37:41.980 --> 01:37:43.040
AI is gonna solve

3918
01:37:43.280 --> 01:37:44.850
meaningful scientific problems.

3919
01:37:45.090 --> 01:37:45.210
Like,

3920
01:37:45.260 --> 01:37:46.450
I'm actually like

3921
01:37:46.580 --> 01:37:47.130
down for all of that.

3922
01:37:47.180 --> 01:37:48.010
I agree with all that.

3923
01:37:48.140 --> 01:37:48.290
Yeah,

3924
01:37:48.420 --> 01:37:49.010
I will say though,

3925
01:37:49.140 --> 01:37:50.050
at the macro level,

3926
01:37:50.100 --> 01:37:52.050
if you look at what's what's actually happening in

3927
01:37:52.050 --> 01:37:54.400
media and resources that are going into research,

3928
01:37:54.540 --> 01:37:57.240
all of it is to double down on what can go wrong,

3929
01:37:57.380 --> 01:37:58.210
and that's important.

3930
01:37:58.380 --> 01:37:59.510
We should understand that.

3931
01:37:59.620 --> 01:38:02.520
But what there's less information for is actual resources

3932
01:38:02.580 --> 01:38:04.450
and research on what exactly we could do right.

3933
01:38:04.720 --> 01:38:06.430
I love what you say about UBI and I

3934
01:38:06.430 --> 01:38:08.660
guarantee that you were the first person to introduce

3935
01:38:08.790 --> 01:38:13.040
most people at a mainstream level to UBI and other opportunities

3936
01:38:13.040 --> 01:38:16.500
and other frameworks around solvent wealth funds or what could possibly do

3937
01:38:16.600 --> 01:38:17.360
people don't know about.

3938
01:38:17.440 --> 01:38:17.910
You know why?

3939
01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:20.700
Because the media isn't putting attention on what we can do correctly.

3940
01:38:20.800 --> 01:38:23.570
The media is putting so much attention on everything that is going wrong.

3941
01:38:23.920 --> 01:38:25.750
I was a TV commentator for a little while and they

3942
01:38:25.750 --> 01:38:28.590
pitched me a show called The Future of with Andrew Yang.

3943
01:38:28.640 --> 01:38:29.750
It was like the future of healthcare,

3944
01:38:29.840 --> 01:38:31.150
the future of transportation.

3945
01:38:31.560 --> 01:38:32.950
They did a focus group and they said,

3946
01:38:33.040 --> 01:38:33.270
hey,

3947
01:38:33.400 --> 01:38:33.790
bad news,

3948
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:34.370
Andrew.

3949
01:38:34.610 --> 01:38:35.800
People don't like the future.

3950
01:38:36.160 --> 01:38:36.250
What

3951
01:38:36.850 --> 01:38:37.310
to think about now,

3952
01:38:37.400 --> 01:38:38.190
now that is not you.

3953
01:38:38.280 --> 01:38:39.350
You're all like super

3954
01:38:39.800 --> 01:38:41.710
gung ho about the future because you're an entrepreneur.

3955
01:38:41.800 --> 01:38:42.850
I think you can make it happen.

3956
01:38:43.080 --> 01:38:44.310
But for the average American,

3957
01:38:44.470 --> 01:38:45.560
they see the future

3958
01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:47.020
and it makes them sad.

3959
01:38:47.120 --> 01:38:48.420
It makes them anxious,

3960
01:38:48.750 --> 01:38:50.300
and I'm gonna suggest that

3961
01:38:50.560 --> 01:38:51.420
a lot of them

3962
01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:52.350
are correct.

3963
01:38:52.520 --> 01:38:53.710
A lot of them are onto something.

3964
01:38:54.050 --> 01:38:56.010
Because the holders of the AI

3965
01:38:56.210 --> 01:38:58.720
and the holders of the Capitol and the controllers

3966
01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:01.270
of the data centers do not give a shit

3967
01:39:01.530 --> 01:39:04.000
about what happens to that person and their family.

3968
01:39:04.090 --> 01:39:05.560
And if that person gets upset,

3969
01:39:05.810 --> 01:39:06.160
they'll be like,

3970
01:39:06.250 --> 01:39:06.360
uh,

3971
01:39:06.530 --> 01:39:07.440
we're just gonna ignore you,

3972
01:39:07.530 --> 01:39:07.840
you're like,

3973
01:39:07.890 --> 01:39:08.160
you know,

3974
01:39:08.290 --> 01:39:08.960
blank you out,

3975
01:39:09.130 --> 01:39:09.550
loser,

3976
01:39:09.660 --> 01:39:12.120
like refract everything through a dysfunctional

3977
01:39:12.120 --> 01:39:13.710
political system that's gonna say,

3978
01:39:13.850 --> 01:39:14.720
you know why you're upset?

3979
01:39:14.820 --> 01:39:16.000
It's because of those people over there.

3980
01:39:16.340 --> 01:39:17.490
People over there who have like a,

3981
01:39:17.580 --> 01:39:17.770
you know,

3982
01:39:18.220 --> 01:39:20.890
like a different value set than you do or terminology than you,

3983
01:39:20.940 --> 01:39:21.720
like they're the problem.

3984
01:39:21.980 --> 01:39:22.570
More and more of us,

3985
01:39:22.620 --> 01:39:24.840
my hope is that more and more of us wise up to that,

3986
01:39:25.140 --> 01:39:25.260
um,

3987
01:39:25.380 --> 01:39:26.700
and then raise our hands and say,

3988
01:39:26.820 --> 01:39:26.990
look,

3989
01:39:27.140 --> 01:39:28.410
there are going to be some winners and losers.

3990
01:39:28.500 --> 01:39:28.890
In my opinion,

3991
01:39:28.940 --> 01:39:30.850
the losers are going to vastly outnumber the winners.

3992
01:39:32.390 --> 01:39:32.980
And that

3993
01:39:33.200 --> 01:39:34.130
um let's

3994
01:39:34.330 --> 01:39:36.060
actually manage this process,

3995
01:39:36.230 --> 01:39:36.820
share the wealth,

3996
01:39:36.950 --> 01:39:39.260
make it so the average person feels like they're gonna benefit.

3997
01:39:39.310 --> 01:39:42.140
And I would say is that most people right now are looking for

3998
01:39:42.140 --> 01:39:44.980
a framework on what exactly we can do to come out of this,

3999
01:39:45.030 --> 01:39:45.720
even within

4000
01:39:45.830 --> 01:39:47.380
all of the AI optimist community,

4001
01:39:47.510 --> 01:39:49.280
all of the entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley,

4002
01:39:49.310 --> 01:39:50.290
there's constant debate

4003
01:39:50.390 --> 01:39:52.910
on what we can do to mitigate the concentrations of power.

4004
01:39:53.870 --> 01:39:57.490
And so specifically the plans in there are really important,

4005
01:39:57.590 --> 01:39:59.140
but the sentiment and the negative sentiment.

4006
01:39:59.310 --> 01:40:00.030
It is more

4007
01:40:00.490 --> 01:40:01.890
around the in the United States

4008
01:40:02.050 --> 01:40:04.280
in poorer countries people love AI.

4009
01:40:04.300 --> 01:40:06.280
The sentiment around AI is larger.

4010
01:40:06.490 --> 01:40:08.240
They believe it's an opportunity for growth,

4011
01:40:08.330 --> 01:40:09.160
for education,

4012
01:40:09.410 --> 01:40:10.200
for prosperity,

4013
01:40:10.290 --> 01:40:11.200
and they see it differently.

4014
01:40:11.290 --> 01:40:14.090
So if we expand our conversation beyond just America

4015
01:40:14.210 --> 01:40:16.150
and we talk about what's happening globally,

4016
01:40:16.400 --> 01:40:18.160
people have a different viewpoint and different sentiment,

4017
01:40:18.200 --> 01:40:20.000
and they're actually feeling very optimistic of

4018
01:40:20.000 --> 01:40:22.520
the future because of artificial intelligence.

4019
01:40:22.650 --> 01:40:23.270
I

4020
01:40:23.610 --> 01:40:25.150
like your expanding the lens.

4021
01:40:25.250 --> 01:40:27.000
I can imagine that people in very.

4022
01:40:27.310 --> 01:40:28.850
Other countries are

4023
01:40:28.990 --> 01:40:29.940
amazed that they can just like,

4024
01:40:30.030 --> 01:40:30.180
you know,

4025
01:40:30.430 --> 01:40:30.690
access,

4026
01:40:30.870 --> 01:40:31.060
uh,

4027
01:40:31.230 --> 01:40:32.510
AI and like do it,

4028
01:40:32.670 --> 01:40:32.820
you know,

4029
01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:34.370
relatively inexpensively for now.

4030
01:40:34.830 --> 01:40:35.100
Like I,

4031
01:40:35.270 --> 01:40:36.370
I will say that

4032
01:40:36.590 --> 01:40:39.690
the folks who are in charge of the institutions that a lot of these other countries

4033
01:40:39.910 --> 01:40:40.300
are saying,

4034
01:40:40.390 --> 01:40:40.490
oh,

4035
01:40:40.510 --> 01:40:41.050
snap,

4036
01:40:41.310 --> 01:40:43.020
we're going to end up paying either the Americans

4037
01:40:43.020 --> 01:40:45.730
or the Chinese to use their AI tools because

4038
01:40:45.870 --> 01:40:48.610
we certainly are not going to come up with our Swedish AI.

4039
01:40:49.190 --> 01:40:49.310
I mean,

4040
01:40:49.390 --> 01:40:50.780
maybe it'll be in Swedish,

4041
01:40:51.070 --> 01:40:54.140
but they'll be licensing the models from either us or China.

4042
01:40:54.230 --> 01:40:54.820
I'm going to tell a.

4043
01:40:55.210 --> 01:40:57.080
AI joke because I think people will enjoy it.

4044
01:40:57.170 --> 01:40:58.350
How far behind

4045
01:40:58.810 --> 01:41:00.280
the US is China and AI?

4046
01:41:00.570 --> 01:41:04.160
And the answer is 12 hours because they wake up and see whatever we did,

4047
01:41:04.290 --> 01:41:04.410
uh,

4048
01:41:04.490 --> 01:41:05.350
the previous day.

4049
01:41:06.130 --> 01:41:06.640
So you have,

4050
01:41:06.730 --> 01:41:08.190
you have like these two great

4051
01:41:08.290 --> 01:41:11.910
powers in AI and then the rest of the world is going to end up paying one of us the other.

4052
01:41:12.010 --> 01:41:13.560
And that's going to be one of the,

4053
01:41:13.650 --> 01:41:15.280
the great global competitions.

4054
01:41:15.410 --> 01:41:18.160
But I can imagine like the average person being excited about the tools.

4055
01:41:18.290 --> 01:41:18.380
Yeah,

4056
01:41:18.490 --> 01:41:20.470
and I would say the other opportunity and the reason

4057
01:41:20.530 --> 01:41:23.220
to be optimistic is that pessimism and often People think,

4058
01:41:23.310 --> 01:41:23.460
OK,

4059
01:41:23.550 --> 01:41:24.220
it's going really bad.

4060
01:41:24.350 --> 01:41:25.620
Let's shut everything down.

4061
01:41:25.750 --> 01:41:29.060
But I am an AI optimist because I don't like the problems in our world.

4062
01:41:29.110 --> 01:41:30.370
I want cures to diseases.

4063
01:41:30.510 --> 01:41:31.900
I want a better planet.

4064
01:41:32.070 --> 01:41:32.320
I,

4065
01:41:32.590 --> 01:41:35.960
I don't want eco economic inequality and global poverty

4066
01:41:36.070 --> 01:41:36.540
as well.

4067
01:41:36.630 --> 01:41:36.950
And

4068
01:41:37.070 --> 01:41:38.020
AI right now,

4069
01:41:38.150 --> 01:41:39.260
when it comes to diseases,

4070
01:41:39.430 --> 01:41:41.460
it's doing so much to do drug discovery.

4071
01:41:41.510 --> 01:41:44.060
They're in finding new solutions to cancers.

4072
01:41:44.150 --> 01:41:47.780
It's creating new market for clean energy we've never had at this scale before.

4073
01:41:47.910 --> 01:41:49.700
And so it's creating demand in new areas,

4074
01:41:49.750 --> 01:41:50.450
and I agree.

4075
01:41:50.890 --> 01:41:52.480
So much consideration we need to do,

4076
01:41:52.570 --> 01:41:55.280
and I want to talk to you even further about what do we actually do.

4077
01:41:55.360 --> 01:41:57.760
What's a tangible step forward that we can actually,

4078
01:41:57.890 --> 01:41:57.960
yeah,

4079
01:41:58.090 --> 01:41:58.160
yeah,

4080
01:41:58.260 --> 01:41:58.400
no,

4081
01:41:58.650 --> 01:41:59.240
Sophia,

4082
01:41:59.730 --> 01:42:00.840
to close on this,

4083
01:42:00.970 --> 01:42:01.560
I am

4084
01:42:01.950 --> 01:42:03.020
pro-innovation,

4085
01:42:03.410 --> 01:42:04.360
pro progress.

4086
01:42:04.490 --> 01:42:06.190
I am not a shut it all down guy.

4087
01:42:06.250 --> 01:42:08.630
I believe that they're going to be very

4088
01:42:08.810 --> 01:42:10.630
negative effects for a lot of people,

4089
01:42:10.930 --> 01:42:11.160
um,

4090
01:42:11.570 --> 01:42:13.120
over this coming period,

4091
01:42:13.210 --> 01:42:15.030
and yet I'm still not a shut it down guy

4092
01:42:15.350 --> 01:42:15.870
because

4093
01:42:15.990 --> 01:42:18.440
I think the opportunity in front of us.

4094
01:42:18.700 --> 01:42:20.430
It is clear to,

4095
01:42:20.490 --> 01:42:23.090
to grow the value creation to solve really,

4096
01:42:23.170 --> 01:42:24.830
really long-standing problems.

4097
01:42:25.050 --> 01:42:27.040
The major challenge in my view,

4098
01:42:27.250 --> 01:42:30.000
is to get the winners of this era to say,

4099
01:42:30.130 --> 01:42:30.400
look,

4100
01:42:30.570 --> 01:42:32.240
it's better outside the bunker,

4101
01:42:32.330 --> 01:42:34.200
it's better above ground than below ground.

4102
01:42:34.290 --> 01:42:37.320
It's better without a bulletproof car and private security for myself.

4103
01:42:37.370 --> 01:42:38.880
It's better not living in fear.

4104
01:42:39.690 --> 01:42:40.750
Let me make it so that

4105
01:42:40.960 --> 01:42:41.640
the average person.

4106
01:42:41.740 --> 01:42:41.960
And

4107
01:42:42.170 --> 01:42:46.430
is sharing in the incredible benefits of this technology in this era,

4108
01:42:46.490 --> 01:42:47.800
and that is the opportunity.

4109
01:42:48.050 --> 01:42:49.080
That is the pursuit.

4110
01:42:49.170 --> 01:42:52.800
The scarcity mindset will turn us against each other and say like,

4111
01:42:52.890 --> 01:42:53.040
hey,

4112
01:42:53.170 --> 01:42:53.880
stop everything.

4113
01:42:54.050 --> 01:42:55.530
I'm not a stop everything guy.

4114
01:42:55.730 --> 01:42:57.070
I'm a come together guy.

4115
01:42:57.170 --> 01:42:57.840
I'm like a,

4116
01:42:58.010 --> 01:42:58.160
like,

4117
01:42:58.330 --> 01:42:58.440
like,

4118
01:42:58.550 --> 01:42:59.850
let's figure it out guy.

4119
01:43:00.050 --> 01:43:02.180
I think that is to me,

4120
01:43:02.370 --> 01:43:04.720
the opportunity of this age to go from scarcity.

4121
01:43:04.810 --> 01:43:05.750
Which has plagued

4122
01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:07.000
human society for,

4123
01:43:07.130 --> 01:43:07.320
you know,

4124
01:43:07.450 --> 01:43:07.710
since,

4125
01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:07.930
uh,

4126
01:43:08.010 --> 01:43:08.580
like our,

4127
01:43:08.600 --> 01:43:09.470
our beginnings

4128
01:43:09.610 --> 01:43:11.160
to actually a world of abundance.

4129
01:43:11.250 --> 01:43:12.030
That is the

4130
01:43:12.170 --> 01:43:13.390
biggest opportunity of this time,

4131
01:43:13.410 --> 01:43:14.480
and I hope that we pursue it.

4132
01:43:14.550 --> 01:43:15.360
I completely agree,

4133
01:43:15.380 --> 01:43:16.670
and I think there's so much we agree on,

4134
01:43:16.690 --> 01:43:18.320
and I look forward to talking more about what are

4135
01:43:18.320 --> 01:43:20.360
their tangible solutions to actually get to that world.

4136
01:43:20.410 --> 01:43:20.760
I love it,

4137
01:43:20.850 --> 01:43:21.240
Sofia.

4138
01:43:21.930 --> 01:43:22.160
Yes,

4139
01:43:22.370 --> 01:43:23.100
appreciate you.

4140
01:43:23.190 --> 01:43:25.360
We're gonna pause here because we are out of time.

4141
01:43:25.450 --> 01:43:26.600
Thank you both so much.

4142
01:43:26.690 --> 01:43:27.800
Give them a round of applause.

4143
01:43:28.080 --> 01:43:28.130
It was

4144
01:43:28.250 --> 01:43:28.710
awesome.

4145
01:43:28.850 --> 01:43:30.830
Like I wanna talk to you more about.

4146
01:43:31.790 --> 01:43:33.730
This was a great conversation.

4147
01:43:34.030 --> 01:43:36.660
So everyone also give yourselves a round of applause.

4148
01:43:36.750 --> 01:43:36.940
Thank you,

4149
01:43:37.110 --> 01:43:37.700
debaters.

4150
01:43:41.670 --> 01:43:42.380
I know.

4151
01:43:42.500 --> 01:43:42.510
And

4152
01:43:42.670 --> 01:43:43.180
Andrew,

4153
01:43:43.270 --> 01:43:44.740
thank you so much for your time.

4154
01:43:44.830 --> 01:43:46.210
It was a great conversation.

4155
01:43:46.350 --> 01:43:47.090
I've got a lot,

4156
01:43:47.350 --> 01:43:48.300
a lot on my mind,

4157
01:43:48.390 --> 01:43:49.250
a lot to say.

4158
01:43:49.350 --> 01:43:49.780
I know,

4159
01:43:49.870 --> 01:43:50.580
I love to hear it.

4160
01:43:50.710 --> 01:43:52.090
So much positivity in the room.

4161
01:43:52.190 --> 01:43:53.330
I feel the positivity.

4162
01:43:53.430 --> 01:43:55.540
This is probably the friendliest debate we've ever had.

4163
01:43:55.630 --> 01:43:55.900
All right.

4164
01:43:55.950 --> 01:43:56.420
And of course,

4165
01:43:56.550 --> 01:43:58.340
thank you all for watching at home.

4166
01:43:58.390 --> 01:44:00.950
This is your time to sound off in the comments.

4167
01:44:01.160 --> 01:44:01.780
Let me know,

4168
01:44:01.950 --> 01:44:02.820
did they change your mind?

4169
01:44:02.910 --> 01:44:04.590
Are you now an AI enthusiast

4170
01:44:04.790 --> 01:44:06.100
or are you still a pessimist?

4171
01:44:06.230 --> 01:44:07.370
Let me know in the comments

4172
01:44:07.470 --> 01:44:08.650
and we'll see you next time.

4173
01:44:08.960 --> 01:44:09.380
Bye.

4174
01:44:14.500 --> 01:44:15.530
They were optimistic.

4175
01:44:15.700 --> 01:44:15.820
Uh,

4176
01:44:15.980 --> 01:44:17.400
I enjoy talking to them,

4177
01:44:17.740 --> 01:44:18.560
really smart.

4178
01:44:19.250 --> 01:44:20.950
Open-minded for the most part.

4179
01:44:21.130 --> 01:44:21.830
We were

4180
01:44:22.130 --> 01:44:24.760
forging a human connection and having a genuine conversation,

4181
01:44:24.850 --> 01:44:26.080
which is what I was going for.

4182
01:44:26.290 --> 01:44:27.470
And I think they were too.

4183
01:44:27.490 --> 01:44:28.710
So I enjoyed the heck out of it.

4184
01:44:28.850 --> 01:44:30.520
Andrew did amazing.

4185
01:44:30.650 --> 01:44:32.600
He is such a good speaker,

4186
01:44:32.650 --> 01:44:34.480
and you can tell that he's really informed.

4187
01:44:34.650 --> 01:44:35.680
Not only is he really informed,

4188
01:44:35.770 --> 01:44:36.760
he's very earnest.

4189
01:44:36.930 --> 01:44:39.640
I think a lot of his perspectives and his point of view comes

4190
01:44:39.640 --> 01:44:42.680
from a place of genuinely wanting to do what's best for humanity,

4191
01:44:42.930 --> 01:44:44.400
trying to do what's best for people.

4192
01:44:44.420 --> 01:44:45.470
And so I really

4193
01:44:45.770 --> 01:44:46.520
enjoyed my conversation.

4194
01:44:46.650 --> 01:44:47.280
Andrew today.

4195
01:44:47.390 --> 01:44:49.340
I actually do think he was

4196
01:44:49.630 --> 01:44:51.630
more of an optimist than

4197
01:44:51.930 --> 01:44:52.840
he let on.

4198
01:44:53.010 --> 01:44:55.190
I was expecting someone very against AI,

4199
01:44:55.290 --> 01:44:56.080
like gonna be very,

4200
01:44:56.210 --> 01:44:56.710
very

4201
01:44:56.850 --> 01:44:57.240
negative,

4202
01:44:57.370 --> 01:44:59.230
but he's actually very optimistic about AI.

4203
01:44:59.250 --> 01:44:59.720
I feel.

4204
01:44:59.880 --> 01:45:00.630
Andrew's great,

4205
01:45:00.810 --> 01:45:01.000
you know,

4206
01:45:01.050 --> 01:45:03.230
it's a breath of fresh air compared to the

4207
01:45:03.330 --> 01:45:05.120
traditional dividing lines in politics,

4208
01:45:05.250 --> 01:45:06.710
so it's exciting to hear his perspective.

4209
01:45:06.810 --> 01:45:10.110
I think that there's a balanced approach that most people

4210
01:45:10.690 --> 01:45:11.870
know we could be,

4211
01:45:11.980 --> 01:45:12.400
um,

4212
01:45:12.730 --> 01:45:14.080
adopting that would be better.