WEBVTT

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Welcome,

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Mike Baker

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to the show.

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Really appreciate you coming on today.

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We're uh

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talking with a

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CIA operations officer who has

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almost 20 years

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experience in the agency.

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And we're very excited to be speaking with you today because there's

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a lot going on in the world that we cover on the show that I think

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you'll have a lot of insight into.

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There's,

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um,

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you know,

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on,

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you'll think differently after we talk,

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but I,

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I appreciate the run-up anyway.

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Yeah,

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on,

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on the show,

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we,

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we cover everything from

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what's going on in Cuba to what's happening in the Middle East,

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in Iran,

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and uh

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a little bit of everything.

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So

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to hear from your perspective

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will be great.

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I appreciate that.

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No,

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it's,

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there's a lot happening out there.

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It's

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Yeah,

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it's,

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it's a strange time.

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Are you,

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have you been tracking what's happening in Iran recently?

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Uh,

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well,

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yes,

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yeah,

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um,

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very closely,

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actually,

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um,

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and,

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uh,

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it

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I think it confuses a lot of people.

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And I think there's,

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there's confusion over a number of elements here.

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Uh,

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why,

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why do we get in a conflict now?

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Um,

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you know,

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what were the key objectives at the outset?

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Mm,

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you know,

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have they changed,

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meaning the objectives.

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Um,

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why is

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The Iranian regime acting as if they've got the upper hand.

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Um,

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how do you stabilize?

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I mean,

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there's just so much here,

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right?

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There's,

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there's a lot

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going on and there's,

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I think it is,

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um,

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or has been.

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Confusing,

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I think,

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for the general public.

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Uh,

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certainly in the US overseas,

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I think there's,

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there's a,

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a,

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a sense

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certainly in the Gulf that the,

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that our

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partners or allies,

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however you want to refer to the Gulf states.

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They,

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they get it.

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They are much closer to the problem.

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They've had to deal with the Iranian regime for years and years.

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On one level,

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they'd love to see the regime gone.

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On another level,

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they

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really want stability,

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and,

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and

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they worry about what a wider conflict could mean for,

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for their own.

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Control in the region,

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so it is,

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it is a very strange time.

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Confusing is a perfect way to put it.

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I feel like that's exactly how,

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like,

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I've,

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I've covered a lot of conflicts.

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I've been to a number of conflicts,

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and this one is the most

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Confusing.

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It's the most elusive.

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It's very difficult to like,

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what's happening,

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who's winning?

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What what does winning even mean,

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and like on what timeline?

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It's it it's not.

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It's very unusual in that it's like a almost completely air war.

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And

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there there was supposed to be

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a big intelligence aspect uh

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component

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with

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supposedly there was gonna be the CIA was arming factions with the Kurds

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again.

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Well,

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there was,

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I mean,

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there was,

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there was,

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there was talk,

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uh,

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not,

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not necessarily,

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I don't mean talk to the agency,

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uh,

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you know,

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but I,

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I mean,

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there was a lot of narrative about that.

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People kind of glommed on,

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you know,

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you'd hear,

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oh my God,

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the Kurds are up,

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you know,

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north along the

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Iran-Iraq border.

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They're gonna

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move that.

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And so that became a narrative,

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right?

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And

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um,

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You have to,

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it's like everything else,

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right?

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You have to spend a fair amount of time,

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and

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the problem is a lot of people don't have a lot of time,

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they're putting food on the table,

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uh,

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to

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kind of strip away.

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All the various little bits and pieces that you're reading and try to figure out,

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OK,

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what,

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what's credible,

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what's not?

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What's the source of this information,

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you know,

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how do I look at something and say,

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yeah,

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this seems like it's well-sourced,

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it's credible.

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Uh,

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so I'll take that to the bank.

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Over here,

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I'm gonna put in a big pile,

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just the bullshit,

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right?

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That,

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that comes out.

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But

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Yeah,

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honestly,

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you know,

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I think

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people in the,

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in the US certainly

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well familiar with,

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for the most part,

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with the,

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the Iranian revolution,

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the timeline 79 till now,

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the regime constantly chanting death to America.

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You know,

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the US is the great Satan.

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And so I think there's,

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there's context here.

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They,

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I think they get that.

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They understand that

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the Iranian regime has,

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you know,

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managed to build and resource and train and promote

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uh a number of proxies that basically promote instability and

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in the region.

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And I think

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they understand the context.

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I think what,

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what they're not getting

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is,

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again,

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this idea that,

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OK,

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we started this conflict.

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Because

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did we have solid intelligence about the nuclear program

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and that they were somehow on the brink.

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Uh,

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did,

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you know,

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what,

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what prompted

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that moment in time?

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And then

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You know,

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we,

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we have some shifting objectives,

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you know,

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did the administration,

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did the Trump administration actually understand that this was always

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going to end up in the Strait of Hormuz?

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And

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You know,

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so now the Trump administration appears

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fairly eager.

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To

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kind of declare victory and go home,

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right?

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And that

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That will also create a lot of

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confusion.

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Yeah,

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it,

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uh,

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it's been the goalpost has shifted a bit from the beginning where it seemed like

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regime change was

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we were just a whisker hair away.

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We got very close,

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um,

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and

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didn't quite stick

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the landing

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on it.

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Um,

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do,

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do you

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stick the landing?

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Do you,

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yes,

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yes.

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We've got,

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we,

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we've had a hard time sticking the landing in a lot of different environments,

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um,

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but,

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uh,

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it is,

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um,

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I think.

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Look,

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nobody likes to say regime change in Washington DC because it's,

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you know,

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there's some history there

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and some of it's not good.

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And

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so,

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but

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you can

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You can say lots of things and they can all

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have an element of truth all at the same time,

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even though they seem conflicting,

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right?

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So,

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regime change is extremely problematic,

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right?

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Has created problems

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uh in a variety of locations.

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OK,

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that's,

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that's true.

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You can also say that,

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you know,

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from a personal standpoint,

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I would love to see this Iranian regime gone.

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You're never gonna get any sort of permanent stability in that region.

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You're never going to get a better life

305
00:06:43.619 --> 00:06:46.709
for the vast number of Iranians who would like to see this regime gone

306
00:06:47.130 --> 00:06:47.429
without

307
00:06:47.809 --> 00:06:48.790
that happening.

308
00:06:49.209 --> 00:06:49.809
Um,

309
00:06:50.049 --> 00:06:51.040
having said that,

310
00:06:51.799 --> 00:06:52.820
It's also true,

311
00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:53.440
like I said,

312
00:06:53.489 --> 00:06:55.540
that that is an extremely complex,

313
00:06:55.760 --> 00:06:56.410
difficult,

314
00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:57.000
and

315
00:06:57.200 --> 00:06:59.140
it's also fraught with all sorts of potential

316
00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:00.440
follow-on problems.

317
00:07:00.559 --> 00:07:00.920
So,

318
00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:01.429
yeah,

319
00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:03.260
but you can say both of those things and

320
00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:04.739
be equally behind

321
00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:05.779
both of them.

322
00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:07.320
You just have to be pragmatic.

323
00:07:07.359 --> 00:07:08.799
And I think the administration,

324
00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:11.279
the Trump administration probably went into this

325
00:07:11.559 --> 00:07:13.579
a little bit drunk on the Venezuela

326
00:07:14.470 --> 00:07:14.799
situation

327
00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:16.540
and imagined that somehow.

328
00:07:17.489 --> 00:07:18.640
We could replicate that,

329
00:07:18.649 --> 00:07:20.269
and that was never going to happen.

330
00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:22.049
It went so well.

331
00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:23.089
It was so smooth.

332
00:07:23.209 --> 00:07:23.839
Maybe one of the the,

333
00:07:24.049 --> 00:07:24.369
I mean,

334
00:07:24.450 --> 00:07:25.390
just the most

335
00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:28.750
incredible military operations in Venezuela.

336
00:07:28.929 --> 00:07:29.809
And also I,

337
00:07:29.929 --> 00:07:30.730
I feel like

338
00:07:30.950 --> 00:07:31.570
since then,

339
00:07:32.429 --> 00:07:33.549
Things have gone pretty well.

340
00:07:33.750 --> 00:07:35.130
They've been cooperative.

341
00:07:35.390 --> 00:07:38.989
The benefits have been huge of cooperating with Venezuela.

342
00:07:39.070 --> 00:07:39.570
We've done

343
00:07:40.230 --> 00:07:42.029
missions in Venezuela since then.

344
00:07:42.070 --> 00:07:45.489
We've taken out a cartelbo or gang leaders

345
00:07:45.910 --> 00:07:46.260
since then,

346
00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:47.709
worked hand in hand with them and went,

347
00:07:47.829 --> 00:07:48.660
it went so well,

348
00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:50.570
and then this somehow it's just has,

349
00:07:50.989 --> 00:07:51.850
feels like it's gone

350
00:07:52.730 --> 00:07:53.690
to kind of the other way,

351
00:07:54.149 --> 00:07:55.070
taking a left turn.

352
00:07:55.429 --> 00:07:55.510
Yeah,

353
00:07:55.589 --> 00:07:55.910
it's not,

354
00:07:55.989 --> 00:07:56.190
I mean,

355
00:07:56.269 --> 00:07:56.459
there's,

356
00:07:56.510 --> 00:07:58.089
there's no comparisons really,

357
00:07:58.109 --> 00:07:58.859
um,

358
00:07:59.380 --> 00:08:00.230
Venezuela.

359
00:08:00.859 --> 00:08:01.679
Had a

360
00:08:01.820 --> 00:08:03.519
relatively recent history of,

361
00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:04.140
you know,

362
00:08:04.420 --> 00:08:06.920
democratic elections and opposition parties and

363
00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:08.700
Um,

364
00:08:09.119 --> 00:08:09.519
so,

365
00:08:10.500 --> 00:08:12.369
That was an easier table to set

366
00:08:12.609 --> 00:08:13.670
than the Iranian regime.

367
00:08:14.329 --> 00:08:14.649
Uh,

368
00:08:14.690 --> 00:08:14.989
and look,

369
00:08:15.010 --> 00:08:15.649
in Venezuela,

370
00:08:15.730 --> 00:08:16.049
you're right.

371
00:08:16.089 --> 00:08:16.250
I mean,

372
00:08:16.290 --> 00:08:16.630
there's,

373
00:08:16.890 --> 00:08:19.390
there's concern over if the government

374
00:08:20.029 --> 00:08:22.410
Under Delci Rodriguez can't produce

375
00:08:22.940 --> 00:08:26.410
results if they don't deal with the follow-on from the earthquakes,

376
00:08:26.750 --> 00:08:27.109
well,

377
00:08:27.190 --> 00:08:27.850
if they

378
00:08:28.109 --> 00:08:28.649
don't

379
00:08:28.989 --> 00:08:30.029
start producing,

380
00:08:30.350 --> 00:08:30.510
you know,

381
00:08:30.589 --> 00:08:31.450
a better

382
00:08:32.140 --> 00:08:32.308
situation,

383
00:08:32.469 --> 00:08:32.599
right?

384
00:08:32.669 --> 00:08:37.020
If they don't show some sort of transitional justice in terms of dealing with,

385
00:08:37.270 --> 00:08:37.460
you know,

386
00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:38.289
some of the

387
00:08:38.549 --> 00:08:40.489
problems from the previous two

388
00:08:40.830 --> 00:08:42.179
regimes there in Venezuela,

389
00:08:42.270 --> 00:08:42.510
then,

390
00:08:42.750 --> 00:08:42.869
yeah,

391
00:08:42.969 --> 00:08:44.070
you could get some unrest,

392
00:08:44.150 --> 00:08:46.090
but it's unrest focused on

393
00:08:47.390 --> 00:08:48.270
Personal conditions,

394
00:08:48.349 --> 00:08:49.059
living conditions,

395
00:08:49.070 --> 00:08:49.250
and,

396
00:08:49.309 --> 00:08:50.909
and the desire for,

397
00:08:51.070 --> 00:08:51.609
for better,

398
00:08:52.150 --> 00:08:52.309
you know,

399
00:08:52.510 --> 00:08:53.000
livelihoods.

400
00:08:53.119 --> 00:08:53.450
So,

401
00:08:53.909 --> 00:08:54.590
that part of it is,

402
00:08:54.669 --> 00:08:55.770
is understandable.

403
00:08:55.940 --> 00:08:56.549
Um,

404
00:08:56.830 --> 00:08:57.539
but Iran,

405
00:08:57.760 --> 00:08:58.090
look,

406
00:08:58.630 --> 00:09:00.250
we're not even clear on who's

407
00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:01.659
In charge,

408
00:09:01.880 --> 00:09:02.020
right?

409
00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:02.309
There's,

410
00:09:02.359 --> 00:09:03.700
there's all sorts of narratives,

411
00:09:03.710 --> 00:09:05.700
and you'll see all sorts of pundits coming on and saying,

412
00:09:05.789 --> 00:09:05.919
wow,

413
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:06.320
this is,

414
00:09:06.599 --> 00:09:06.760
you know,

415
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:08.159
Mustaba Khamenei is,

416
00:09:08.239 --> 00:09:08.359
you know,

417
00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:09.070
the supreme leader,

418
00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:09.479
and he's,

419
00:09:09.590 --> 00:09:09.719
you know,

420
00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:11.330
making decisions even though we haven't seen him.

421
00:09:11.590 --> 00:09:12.309
You'll see some saying,

422
00:09:12.369 --> 00:09:12.520
ah,

423
00:09:12.719 --> 00:09:13.799
Mustaba Khamenei is,

424
00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:14.190
is,

425
00:09:14.400 --> 00:09:15.289
is a debt,

426
00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:16.390
where he's out of the country.

427
00:09:16.429 --> 00:09:17.940
He's been whisked out of the country.

428
00:09:18.270 --> 00:09:18.789
Um,

429
00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:19.039
you know,

430
00:09:19.119 --> 00:09:21.619
you'll see people talking about Mussoud Bazekki and

431
00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:23.030
Basaragi,

432
00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:23.239
the,

433
00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:26.880
the guys that are sort of the face of the negotiations and activists somehow

434
00:09:27.239 --> 00:09:27.780
they're.

435
00:09:28.229 --> 00:09:29.719
You're the ones driving this train.

436
00:09:29.789 --> 00:09:33.210
The reality is it's a military leadership at this point under the

437
00:09:33.549 --> 00:09:35.659
Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.

438
00:09:36.030 --> 00:09:37.229
And the IRGC,

439
00:09:37.270 --> 00:09:38.609
which has been incredibly

440
00:09:38.789 --> 00:09:39.460
um

441
00:09:39.739 --> 00:09:40.530
embedded

442
00:09:40.869 --> 00:09:43.809
within every sector of that country for years,

443
00:09:44.429 --> 00:09:46.090
has really kind of firmly

444
00:09:47.239 --> 00:09:47.479
You know,

445
00:09:47.609 --> 00:09:48.260
finished

446
00:09:48.599 --> 00:09:49.380
taking control.

447
00:09:49.599 --> 00:09:51.799
And so you could argue that the mullahs are

448
00:09:52.229 --> 00:09:53.400
kind of pushed to the sidelines,

449
00:09:53.520 --> 00:09:53.640
you know,

450
00:09:53.760 --> 00:09:54.349
for optics,

451
00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:55.099
they still,

452
00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.640
OK,

453
00:09:55.750 --> 00:09:56.760
it's still a theocracy,

454
00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:57.280
still,

455
00:09:57.679 --> 00:09:57.909
and,

456
00:09:57.960 --> 00:09:58.080
you know,

457
00:09:58.159 --> 00:09:59.500
you could argue that

458
00:09:59.619 --> 00:10:00.179
the political

459
00:10:00.520 --> 00:10:01.630
types like posseskin,

460
00:10:01.760 --> 00:10:01.950
OK,

461
00:10:02.070 --> 00:10:02.440
they're there,

462
00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:04.340
but they've been relegated to the sideline.

463
00:10:05.309 --> 00:10:06.030
So,

464
00:10:06.549 --> 00:10:07.570
we're dealing with,

465
00:10:08.109 --> 00:10:08.909
with the

466
00:10:09.010 --> 00:10:10.500
IRGC commanders,

467
00:10:10.690 --> 00:10:10.979
you know,

468
00:10:11.349 --> 00:10:13.809
for the most part who form a National Security Council,

469
00:10:13.869 --> 00:10:14.549
and that's,

470
00:10:15.070 --> 00:10:16.409
that's very problematic.

471
00:10:16.429 --> 00:10:18.090
And there's still no clarity

472
00:10:18.530 --> 00:10:19.690
uh on

473
00:10:19.900 --> 00:10:20.510
Muktaba,

474
00:10:20.669 --> 00:10:22.010
the new supreme Leader,

475
00:10:22.380 --> 00:10:22.989
um,

476
00:10:23.390 --> 00:10:25.590
who hasn't appeared in public since he was named that,

477
00:10:25.690 --> 00:10:26.750
hasn't been heard from.

478
00:10:26.950 --> 00:10:29.010
Everything that he supposedly has said has been

479
00:10:29.229 --> 00:10:30.809
written statements read by others.

480
00:10:31.340 --> 00:10:31.890
So,

481
00:10:31.900 --> 00:10:33.969
he may well be nothing more than if he's alive,

482
00:10:34.020 --> 00:10:37.219
than a rubber stamp on decisions taken by the IRGC.

483
00:10:38.460 --> 00:10:40.000
And right now they have no uh

484
00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:41.460
uh apparent.

485
00:10:42.510 --> 00:10:43.710
Indication that there's,

486
00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:45.169
that they want to

487
00:10:45.429 --> 00:10:47.710
find an off-ramp or negotiate in good faith,

488
00:10:47.750 --> 00:10:48.750
they've never have.

489
00:10:49.150 --> 00:10:49.750
And

490
00:10:49.900 --> 00:10:50.890
at this stage,

491
00:10:51.229 --> 00:10:51.349
you know,

492
00:10:51.429 --> 00:10:52.890
they've issued a list of demands.

493
00:10:52.979 --> 00:10:53.219
You know,

494
00:10:53.549 --> 00:10:54.270
Marco Rubio,

495
00:10:54.390 --> 00:10:54.950
President Trump,

496
00:10:55.150 --> 00:10:55.429
everybody's saying,

497
00:10:55.510 --> 00:10:55.630
well,

498
00:10:55.669 --> 00:10:55.869
we're,

499
00:10:55.969 --> 00:10:57.690
we're hours away from a deal,

500
00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:58.030
right?

501
00:10:58.109 --> 00:10:58.270
I mean,

502
00:10:58.349 --> 00:10:58.510
I'm,

503
00:10:58.630 --> 00:10:59.429
I'm this is rinse,

504
00:10:59.510 --> 00:10:59.750
wash,

505
00:10:59.950 --> 00:11:00.109
repeat.

506
00:11:00.179 --> 00:11:01.549
How many times have we heard that?

507
00:11:01.909 --> 00:11:02.489
And

508
00:11:03.150 --> 00:11:03.659
now,

509
00:11:03.830 --> 00:11:04.030
you know,

510
00:11:04.109 --> 00:11:05.250
the Iranian

511
00:11:05.750 --> 00:11:09.820
The leadership such as this issues a full set of demands

512
00:11:10.190 --> 00:11:12.299
for just reopening the Strait of Hormuz,

513
00:11:12.349 --> 00:11:12.690
which

514
00:11:13.299 --> 00:11:15.330
I hate to be churlish but was open

515
00:11:15.510 --> 00:11:16.390
before the conflict.

516
00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:18.109
So,

517
00:11:18.640 --> 00:11:19.960
we should have seen this coming.

518
00:11:21.539 --> 00:11:21.820
I mean,

519
00:11:21.900 --> 00:11:23.000
I feel like I,

520
00:11:23.099 --> 00:11:23.679
I

521
00:11:23.969 --> 00:11:27.000
am right there with you on your assessment of

522
00:11:27.219 --> 00:11:28.270
the situation.

523
00:11:28.580 --> 00:11:28.780
I don't,

524
00:11:28.849 --> 00:11:29.020
uh,

525
00:11:29.099 --> 00:11:30.169
where do you think it

526
00:11:30.419 --> 00:11:31.500
goes from here?

527
00:11:34.030 --> 00:11:34.789
Well,

528
00:11:35.109 --> 00:11:35.690
if

529
00:11:35.909 --> 00:11:36.690
they've

530
00:11:38.090 --> 00:11:40.429
Actually decided on holding

531
00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.510
the course steady for economic pressure.

532
00:11:43.809 --> 00:11:44.530
So if the White House,

533
00:11:44.570 --> 00:11:45.849
which is what they're saying now,

534
00:11:45.890 --> 00:11:46.690
and I think in part,

535
00:11:46.890 --> 00:11:47.729
they don't want to say this,

536
00:11:47.809 --> 00:11:48.390
but in part,

537
00:11:48.450 --> 00:11:48.530
it,

538
00:11:48.609 --> 00:11:49.669
it is linked

539
00:11:49.969 --> 00:11:50.400
to the,

540
00:11:50.650 --> 00:11:51.549
to the uh

541
00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:54.919
significant use of munitions up to this point,

542
00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:55.210
right?

543
00:11:55.289 --> 00:11:55.450
I mean,

544
00:11:55.489 --> 00:11:55.729
that's a,

545
00:11:55.809 --> 00:11:56.280
that's a

546
00:11:57.609 --> 00:12:00.500
Those are hard items to replace when you start talking about

547
00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:02.500
Patriot TAA systems and others.

548
00:12:02.830 --> 00:12:03.320
So,

549
00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:04.299
they,

550
00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:04.599
you know,

551
00:12:04.719 --> 00:12:05.280
keep talking about,

552
00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:05.429
no,

553
00:12:05.479 --> 00:12:06.340
we don't have any problems.

554
00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:06.520
Well,

555
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:07.059
of course,

556
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:08.950
that's what you would say if you're the administration.

557
00:12:09.070 --> 00:12:09.190
You know,

558
00:12:09.239 --> 00:12:10.919
you're not gonna tell your adversaries you have problems.

559
00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:11.260
But,

560
00:12:11.520 --> 00:12:11.640
you know,

561
00:12:11.719 --> 00:12:13.469
our adversaries are not stupid,

562
00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:13.840
right?

563
00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:16.659
And they had a pretty good sense of stockpiles of munitions,

564
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:17.239
you know,

565
00:12:17.349 --> 00:12:17.830
over.

566
00:12:18.469 --> 00:12:18.710
You know,

567
00:12:18.830 --> 00:12:20.250
any period of time.

568
00:12:20.510 --> 00:12:23.530
And so they just simply look at the stats and the numbers,

569
00:12:23.909 --> 00:12:25.940
and what's been happening during the conflict,

570
00:12:25.950 --> 00:12:27.669
and they can make their own decisions,

571
00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:28.349
right?

572
00:12:28.619 --> 00:12:29.150
But

573
00:12:29.429 --> 00:12:30.039
I think

574
00:12:30.190 --> 00:12:32.210
the drawdown on key munitions.

575
00:12:33.369 --> 00:12:34.669
has been concerning.

576
00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.219
And so I think that is driving in part the White House saying,

577
00:12:37.289 --> 00:12:37.409
well,

578
00:12:37.450 --> 00:12:38.750
we're gonna step back from

579
00:12:38.969 --> 00:12:39.809
military strikes,

580
00:12:39.880 --> 00:12:41.549
we're gonna focus on the economy.

581
00:12:41.849 --> 00:12:44.260
They're not wrong in focusing on the economy,

582
00:12:44.809 --> 00:12:45.080
right?

583
00:12:45.239 --> 00:12:45.409
That,

584
00:12:45.489 --> 00:12:45.849
that,

585
00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:46.130
it,

586
00:12:46.210 --> 00:12:47.409
it wouldn't take much to,

587
00:12:47.530 --> 00:12:48.849
to send it over the edge.

588
00:12:48.929 --> 00:12:49.330
And I,

589
00:12:49.369 --> 00:12:49.729
frankly,

590
00:12:49.809 --> 00:12:51.309
I think that the regime,

591
00:12:51.969 --> 00:12:52.320
again,

592
00:12:52.409 --> 00:12:53.109
whichever,

593
00:12:53.369 --> 00:12:53.950
you know,

594
00:12:54.369 --> 00:12:55.510
cats are in charge,

595
00:12:56.090 --> 00:12:56.929
they're most concerned,

596
00:12:57.010 --> 00:12:57.650
they're more,

597
00:12:57.690 --> 00:12:59.890
they're not concerned with munitions falling on them,

598
00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:00.130
right?

599
00:13:00.169 --> 00:13:00.359
I mean,

600
00:13:00.369 --> 00:13:02.489
they figured out they can withstand that.

601
00:13:03.219 --> 00:13:03.849
Um,

602
00:13:04.150 --> 00:13:06.489
they're concerned about public unrest

603
00:13:06.710 --> 00:13:08.739
because the economy completely craters,

604
00:13:08.750 --> 00:13:10.200
and it hasn't completely cratered yet,

605
00:13:10.549 --> 00:13:11.640
but it's heading in that direction.

606
00:13:11.750 --> 00:13:11.929
So,

607
00:13:12.270 --> 00:13:12.869
frankly,

608
00:13:13.900 --> 00:13:14.380
I'm just,

609
00:13:14.489 --> 00:13:14.729
you know,

610
00:13:14.859 --> 00:13:16.179
you can argue all day long and say,

611
00:13:16.219 --> 00:13:16.340
well,

612
00:13:16.380 --> 00:13:19.820
we shouldn't be doing that and we shouldn't be looking for regime change and,

613
00:13:20.299 --> 00:13:22.080
but if you are looking for regime change,

614
00:13:22.219 --> 00:13:23.570
it seems to have been the

615
00:13:24.849 --> 00:13:25.820
Kind of unwritten

616
00:13:26.130 --> 00:13:26.989
objective here,

617
00:13:27.650 --> 00:13:28.340
then

618
00:13:28.489 --> 00:13:29.309
you better

619
00:13:29.770 --> 00:13:30.349
put your

620
00:13:30.489 --> 00:13:31.210
foot on the,

621
00:13:31.690 --> 00:13:34.169
on the gas as far as the economic pressure goes.

622
00:13:34.250 --> 00:13:36.190
Cause that's the one thing that could really

623
00:13:36.609 --> 00:13:37.739
cause the regime

624
00:13:37.869 --> 00:13:38.200
to say,

625
00:13:38.210 --> 00:13:38.520
uh,

626
00:13:38.530 --> 00:13:39.770
we're gonna lose control here.

627
00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:41.340
Um,

628
00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:42.280
and

629
00:13:42.940 --> 00:13:43.559
maybe

630
00:13:44.299 --> 00:13:45.130
for the first time,

631
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:48.090
they would sit down at the table and negotiate something in good faith.

632
00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:49.320
That probably won't happen.

633
00:13:50.099 --> 00:13:50.340
Yeah,

634
00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:50.979
but I think,

635
00:13:51.059 --> 00:13:51.210
and,

636
00:13:51.219 --> 00:13:53.340
and also it's unlikely that the people will,

637
00:13:53.659 --> 00:13:56.059
but they thousands of them slaughtered by this regime,

638
00:13:56.380 --> 00:13:57.289
not that long ago,

639
00:13:57.460 --> 00:13:58.119
so it's

640
00:13:58.460 --> 00:13:59.679
fairly good incentive to

641
00:14:00.219 --> 00:14:02.219
not get back out on the street anytime soon,

642
00:14:02.299 --> 00:14:02.650
but,

643
00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:02.979
you know,

644
00:14:03.049 --> 00:14:05.900
if things get bad enough from an economic perspective.

645
00:14:06.669 --> 00:14:06.909
Yeah,

646
00:14:07.070 --> 00:14:07.349
it could,

647
00:14:07.429 --> 00:14:08.150
it could happen.

648
00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:10.219
Yeah,

649
00:14:10.380 --> 00:14:11.460
I'm not saying I'm again,

650
00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:11.739
you know,

651
00:14:11.859 --> 00:14:12.260
I'm not,

652
00:14:12.380 --> 00:14:12.880
I'm not

653
00:14:13.419 --> 00:14:14.530
putting my finger on one or the other.

654
00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:16.299
I'm just saying from an operational perspective,

655
00:14:16.340 --> 00:14:17.750
that's kind of where I stand

656
00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:19.320
in terms of what's,

657
00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:19.979
what's not.

658
00:14:20.099 --> 00:14:22.500
It seems like they're really doubling down on the

659
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.460
blockade now and that the blockade is their,

660
00:14:25.539 --> 00:14:26.960
their big move to

661
00:14:27.739 --> 00:14:30.960
And it's sort of just I guess gonna be a waiting game now to see

662
00:14:31.700 --> 00:14:32.729
how many months,

663
00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:33.520
how long,

664
00:14:33.859 --> 00:14:34.520
or if ever,

665
00:14:34.979 --> 00:14:35.489
it will,

666
00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:36.500
like you said,

667
00:14:36.940 --> 00:14:39.440
bring them to the negotiating table in good faith.

668
00:14:39.780 --> 00:14:40.659
And I,

669
00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:41.969
so me personally,

670
00:14:42.140 --> 00:14:44.719
I'm skeptical that it will because,

671
00:14:45.099 --> 00:14:45.739
I mean,

672
00:14:46.179 --> 00:14:46.789
I think they'd,

673
00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:49.119
they'd gladly become North Korea too

674
00:14:49.900 --> 00:14:50.479
before.

675
00:14:51.309 --> 00:14:52.599
Giving up the Strait of Hormuz,

676
00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:53.299
for instance,

677
00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:53.960
like,

678
00:14:54.020 --> 00:14:55.559
I think they'll take enormous,

679
00:14:56.219 --> 00:14:57.400
or I should say,

680
00:14:57.729 --> 00:14:59.320
they'll be willing to let their people

681
00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:01.590
take enormous sacrifices

682
00:15:02.020 --> 00:15:03.059
before they give up the trait.

683
00:15:04.020 --> 00:15:04.130
Well,

684
00:15:04.219 --> 00:15:04.520
that's a great,

685
00:15:04.659 --> 00:15:06.219
that's a really good point because look at,

686
00:15:06.460 --> 00:15:06.609
you know,

687
00:15:06.690 --> 00:15:08.070
how much pain can they withstand?

688
00:15:08.130 --> 00:15:08.210
Well,

689
00:15:08.260 --> 00:15:09.780
they'll push that pain down to the people.

690
00:15:09.859 --> 00:15:12.419
We already know that because they have no problems killing thousands of them.

691
00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:13.750
Um,

692
00:15:13.890 --> 00:15:14.659
and detaining,

693
00:15:14.890 --> 00:15:15.000
look,

694
00:15:15.049 --> 00:15:15.140
we,

695
00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:16.289
we haven't even talked about,

696
00:15:16.359 --> 00:15:16.570
you know,

697
00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:18.169
over the past couple of months,

698
00:15:18.489 --> 00:15:19.440
all the arrests,

699
00:15:19.530 --> 00:15:22.630
the executions that the regime has been undertaking.

700
00:15:22.890 --> 00:15:25.049
Everybody's looking over here at the Strait of Hormuz.

701
00:15:25.570 --> 00:15:26.989
They're using that opportunity

702
00:15:27.409 --> 00:15:29.880
to clean house from their perspective in the regime,

703
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:30.309
right?

704
00:15:30.530 --> 00:15:31.210
Empty the prisons,

705
00:15:31.289 --> 00:15:31.869
execute,

706
00:15:32.010 --> 00:15:32.130
you know,

707
00:15:32.210 --> 00:15:36.039
a bunch of the folks that were responsible for protests or involved in protests.

708
00:15:36.809 --> 00:15:37.349
So,

709
00:15:37.460 --> 00:15:37.950
um,

710
00:15:39.140 --> 00:15:39.340
You know,

711
00:15:39.419 --> 00:15:40.400
I think there is a,

712
00:15:41.140 --> 00:15:41.250
you,

713
00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:41.460
you,

714
00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:41.739
you're,

715
00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:42.169
you're right.

716
00:15:42.219 --> 00:15:43.250
That's the best way to put it.

717
00:15:43.289 --> 00:15:43.500
It's a,

718
00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:44.960
it's a staring contest,

719
00:15:45.099 --> 00:15:45.260
right?

720
00:15:45.309 --> 00:15:45.530
It's,

721
00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:46.080
it's,

722
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:46.219
you know,

723
00:15:46.260 --> 00:15:47.559
who's gonna blink first.

724
00:15:47.900 --> 00:15:48.419
And

725
00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:53.299
either they do come to the table if the economic pressure is maintained,

726
00:15:53.989 --> 00:15:54.739
or

727
00:15:55.099 --> 00:15:56.450
perhaps it creates the,

728
00:15:57.260 --> 00:15:59.299
the moment or the environment where people do say,

729
00:15:59.380 --> 00:15:59.500
yeah,

730
00:15:59.659 --> 00:16:00.140
enough's enough.

731
00:16:00.219 --> 00:16:01.539
We know this is really dangerous,

732
00:16:01.609 --> 00:16:01.770
but,

733
00:16:01.900 --> 00:16:05.599
and maybe elements of the IRGC make the same decision,

734
00:16:05.780 --> 00:16:05.900
right?

735
00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:06.840
They're not getting paid.

736
00:16:07.469 --> 00:16:07.869
So,

737
00:16:08.020 --> 00:16:08.739
at a certain point,

738
00:16:08.789 --> 00:16:09.349
the militias,

739
00:16:09.390 --> 00:16:10.549
a security apparatus,

740
00:16:10.669 --> 00:16:11.090
maybe

741
00:16:11.429 --> 00:16:12.390
their families of,

742
00:16:12.469 --> 00:16:12.719
of,

743
00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:13.109
you know,

744
00:16:13.309 --> 00:16:14.650
key personnel there say,

745
00:16:14.830 --> 00:16:15.030
you know,

746
00:16:15.109 --> 00:16:16.090
what are you doing?

747
00:16:16.590 --> 00:16:17.030
How about you,

748
00:16:17.109 --> 00:16:18.270
how about you step up?

749
00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:18.969
So,

750
00:16:19.150 --> 00:16:20.349
maybe they take part and,

751
00:16:20.400 --> 00:16:20.710
and you,

752
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:22.669
you get some sort of transition

753
00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:23.969
away from this,

754
00:16:24.469 --> 00:16:24.859
uh,

755
00:16:24.869 --> 00:16:25.440
regime.

756
00:16:26.049 --> 00:16:26.229
Again,

757
00:16:26.309 --> 00:16:26.669
that's,

758
00:16:26.869 --> 00:16:28.690
there's some wishful thinking involved in that.

759
00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:29.659
It's not a,

760
00:16:30.030 --> 00:16:31.989
it's not a good thing to base your foreign policy on,

761
00:16:32.049 --> 00:16:32.369
but

762
00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:33.599
Yeah,

763
00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:33.869
it's,

764
00:16:33.880 --> 00:16:35.349
it's a fucked up mess.

765
00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:36.659
The

766
00:16:37.359 --> 00:16:37.940
one of the,

767
00:16:37.969 --> 00:16:40.140
the most interesting parts of the war was,

768
00:16:40.520 --> 00:16:41.659
was the intelligence

769
00:16:42.479 --> 00:16:44.070
key was the intelligence piece of it.

770
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.619
It's sort of in a way,

771
00:16:45.640 --> 00:16:46.030
it was,

772
00:16:46.119 --> 00:16:46.309
I,

773
00:16:46.479 --> 00:16:46.919
I,

774
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:48.250
I mean just from my like layman,

775
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:49.880
I was just an infantryman in in Iraq.

776
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:50.380
I,

777
00:16:50.400 --> 00:16:52.179
I never was in intel or anything,

778
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:53.940
but from my layman's

779
00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:54.799
view,

780
00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.099
seemed like a bit of an intelligence

781
00:16:57.239 --> 00:16:57.859
failure,

782
00:16:58.549 --> 00:16:59.479
where they

783
00:16:59.760 --> 00:17:00.940
had identified.

784
00:17:01.409 --> 00:17:01.890
Um,

785
00:17:01.940 --> 00:17:04.739
a former prime minister or president in Iran,

786
00:17:04.858 --> 00:17:06.140
Ahmadinejad,

787
00:17:06.260 --> 00:17:06.939
who's they,

788
00:17:07.579 --> 00:17:08.189
um,

789
00:17:08.660 --> 00:17:10.760
it sounded like they were in like jailbreak him

790
00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:11.719
and then

791
00:17:11.979 --> 00:17:13.618
with a bombing and then

792
00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:15.560
set him up to be

793
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:17.040
in power in Iran,

794
00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:19.199
and then it kind of fell apart.

795
00:17:19.300 --> 00:17:20.358
He disappeared,

796
00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:21.098
uh,

797
00:17:21.219 --> 00:17:23.500
it must be really he decided that wasn't.

798
00:17:23.939 --> 00:17:25.489
In his best interests,

799
00:17:25.709 --> 00:17:26.150
um,

800
00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:26.709
is that what,

801
00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:27.368
is that what happened?

802
00:17:28.040 --> 00:17:28.050
Yeah,

803
00:17:28.150 --> 00:17:30.569
I think he read the tea leaves there after he had been

804
00:17:30.989 --> 00:17:32.810
moved away from his compound

805
00:17:33.310 --> 00:17:35.250
where he was essentially under house arrest,

806
00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:36.109
um,

807
00:17:36.349 --> 00:17:36.829
then he,

808
00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:37.489
and that is.

809
00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:39.000
I don't wanna say it's typical,

810
00:17:39.099 --> 00:17:40.410
but you'll see that sometimes.

811
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.300
You'll see it in a,

812
00:17:41.410 --> 00:17:41.619
uh,

813
00:17:41.660 --> 00:17:41.849
you know,

814
00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:42.329
in a,

815
00:17:42.540 --> 00:17:43.400
a defector

816
00:17:43.579 --> 00:17:44.119
or

817
00:17:44.380 --> 00:17:45.130
someone who,

818
00:17:45.380 --> 00:17:45.530
you know,

819
00:17:45.859 --> 00:17:47.400
decides to switch teams and,

820
00:17:47.589 --> 00:17:48.739
and suddenly they,

821
00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:49.060
you know,

822
00:17:49.800 --> 00:17:52.459
it happened a handful of times within the old Soviet days,

823
00:17:52.579 --> 00:17:52.780
right?

824
00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:53.250
And they,

825
00:17:53.619 --> 00:17:54.089
they,

826
00:17:54.339 --> 00:17:54.540
you know,

827
00:17:54.660 --> 00:17:56.290
they get cold feet and think oh fuck it,

828
00:17:56.339 --> 00:17:56.530
I,

829
00:17:56.619 --> 00:17:57.420
this is what did I do?

830
00:17:57.619 --> 00:17:58.319
This is a mistake.

831
00:17:58.420 --> 00:17:58.829
And then

832
00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:00.160
Tell you what the mistake was.

833
00:18:00.229 --> 00:18:03.089
The mistake was when they returned home to the Soviet Union.

834
00:18:03.439 --> 00:18:04.180
Um,

835
00:18:04.560 --> 00:18:05.020
but

836
00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:05.319
yeah,

837
00:18:05.439 --> 00:18:06.979
so Ahmadinejad,

838
00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:07.619
he,

839
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:08.520
you know,

840
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.209
primarily that was an Israeli operation,

841
00:18:12.040 --> 00:18:12.589
um,

842
00:18:12.800 --> 00:18:13.339
that

843
00:18:13.719 --> 00:18:15.500
was designed to

844
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:17.680
again provide some transition.

845
00:18:18.300 --> 00:18:18.630
You know,

846
00:18:18.760 --> 00:18:21.810
using somebody who was known to the Iranian public.

847
00:18:22.180 --> 00:18:23.219
The concept isn't,

848
00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:23.920
isn't

849
00:18:24.260 --> 00:18:24.770
bad,

850
00:18:24.939 --> 00:18:25.209
right?

851
00:18:25.420 --> 00:18:25.619
It's,

852
00:18:25.689 --> 00:18:26.920
there's some logic to it,

853
00:18:27.219 --> 00:18:27.569
but

854
00:18:27.719 --> 00:18:28.140
it didn't,

855
00:18:28.199 --> 00:18:29.270
it just didn't happen.

856
00:18:29.300 --> 00:18:30.199
And uh

857
00:18:30.790 --> 00:18:31.020
he,

858
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:32.660
I think he decided his,

859
00:18:33.020 --> 00:18:33.369
you know,

860
00:18:33.540 --> 00:18:34.939
his self-preservation.

861
00:18:35.569 --> 00:18:36.530
Kicked in probably.

862
00:18:36.689 --> 00:18:39.890
Some something I really wanted to ask you about was your read on it,

863
00:18:39.969 --> 00:18:40.550
so in

864
00:18:41.050 --> 00:18:41.589
related to that,

865
00:18:41.609 --> 00:18:42.689
in Venezuela,

866
00:18:42.849 --> 00:18:43.199
they,

867
00:18:43.369 --> 00:18:47.199
I thought maybe they did a sort of similar thing where they flipped

868
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:50.510
one a couple of people high up in Venezuela's government,

869
00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:51.920
like uh the,

870
00:18:51.939 --> 00:18:52.390
the,

871
00:18:52.449 --> 00:18:54.329
the former vice president,

872
00:18:54.449 --> 00:18:55.589
maybe some other people

873
00:18:55.930 --> 00:18:56.270
and

874
00:18:57.489 --> 00:18:57.650
Did,

875
00:18:57.810 --> 00:19:02.989
so there was a theory that potentially maybe some parts of the Venezuelan military

876
00:19:03.130 --> 00:19:04.630
stood down in a way,

877
00:19:04.729 --> 00:19:09.010
while there was certainly there was Cuban intelligence was there fighting,

878
00:19:09.369 --> 00:19:09.810
uh,

879
00:19:10.010 --> 00:19:13.670
taking shots at our guys that that were going in to capture Maduro,

880
00:19:14.010 --> 00:19:16.310
but potentially maybe the conventional.

881
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:17.180
Uh,

882
00:19:17.189 --> 00:19:20.829
Venezuelan army maybe stood down for that helicopter assault.

883
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:21.040
I mean,

884
00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:21.520
I,

885
00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:22.979
I'm just curious to what,

886
00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:23.569
uh,

887
00:19:23.630 --> 00:19:25.430
your thoughts on that whole raid was.

888
00:19:25.719 --> 00:19:26.040
Yeah,

889
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:26.280
I mean,

890
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:26.630
I'd be,

891
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.939
I'd be speculating uh in terms of who and how

892
00:19:30.560 --> 00:19:31.520
well they set the table,

893
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.560
but they clearly did.

894
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:33.219
They were having,

895
00:19:33.439 --> 00:19:33.739
you know,

896
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:35.000
back channel discussions.

897
00:19:35.040 --> 00:19:35.540
They were,

898
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:36.560
you know,

899
00:19:36.719 --> 00:19:37.250
uh,

900
00:19:37.479 --> 00:19:38.459
establishing

901
00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:40.540
rapport and contact with

902
00:19:40.800 --> 00:19:42.000
some of the key individuals,

903
00:19:42.099 --> 00:19:42.250
right?

904
00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:43.130
Because they

905
00:19:43.430 --> 00:19:43.589
You know,

906
00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:44.430
you can't just do this,

907
00:19:44.469 --> 00:19:44.829
so you couldn't,

908
00:19:44.910 --> 00:19:45.910
you couldn't have waltzed in there,

909
00:19:46.030 --> 00:19:46.739
picked up Maduro,

910
00:19:46.780 --> 00:19:47.180
and then,

911
00:19:47.550 --> 00:19:48.290
then start

912
00:19:48.670 --> 00:19:49.010
making

913
00:19:49.189 --> 00:19:50.310
some sort of plan B.

914
00:19:50.390 --> 00:19:50.689
But

915
00:19:50.910 --> 00:19:51.489
I think

916
00:19:51.630 --> 00:19:52.449
that part of it

917
00:19:53.109 --> 00:19:53.449
was,

918
00:19:53.510 --> 00:19:54.290
was pretty clear.

919
00:19:55.150 --> 00:19:55.449
What

920
00:19:55.550 --> 00:19:57.709
wasn't clear is to what you're talking about,

921
00:19:57.790 --> 00:19:58.140
which is,

922
00:19:58.150 --> 00:19:58.349
OK,

923
00:19:58.469 --> 00:20:00.010
to what degree did you have

924
00:20:00.670 --> 00:20:03.060
cooperation from senior members of the military,

925
00:20:03.300 --> 00:20:04.569
Venezuelan military,

926
00:20:04.699 --> 00:20:05.250
and,

927
00:20:05.390 --> 00:20:05.540
you know,

928
00:20:05.589 --> 00:20:07.199
the problem there is obviously if you

929
00:20:07.719 --> 00:20:07.880
You know,

930
00:20:07.959 --> 00:20:10.390
the further you cast that net and start talking to people,

931
00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:10.880
you know,

932
00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:13.660
the more that information gets disseminated and,

933
00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:14.040
you know,

934
00:20:14.199 --> 00:20:15.819
you things could head south pretty quickly,

935
00:20:16.060 --> 00:20:16.739
um,

936
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.140
because people start talking.

937
00:20:18.239 --> 00:20:21.020
So you want to keep that on a really tight need to know,

938
00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:21.979
uh,

939
00:20:22.040 --> 00:20:23.540
in terms of who you are

940
00:20:25.199 --> 00:20:25.900
discussing

941
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:27.630
the potential for something like this with.

942
00:20:27.719 --> 00:20:28.260
So I think

943
00:20:28.479 --> 00:20:29.040
it was,

944
00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:29.430
if it,

945
00:20:29.560 --> 00:20:30.469
if they did do that,

946
00:20:30.520 --> 00:20:31.339
it was limited,

947
00:20:31.829 --> 00:20:32.160
uh,

948
00:20:32.270 --> 00:20:32.560
but they,

949
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.459
I think they definitely had some inside information just

950
00:20:35.959 --> 00:20:37.260
Before they rocked up on the target,

951
00:20:37.270 --> 00:20:39.199
in particular from an operational perspective.

952
00:20:41.430 --> 00:20:42.260
Do you,

953
00:20:43.109 --> 00:20:43.390
what do you,

954
00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:43.790
what do you,

955
00:20:43.829 --> 00:20:45.609
do you have thoughts on

956
00:20:45.790 --> 00:20:49.579
Mossad essentially in the Iran war and there,

957
00:20:49.989 --> 00:20:50.000
it,

958
00:20:50.030 --> 00:20:50.890
it seemed cause

959
00:20:51.069 --> 00:20:53.040
Mossad has a track record of

960
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.979
Very successful with their assassinations and with their missions,

961
00:20:57.319 --> 00:20:57.859
and then

962
00:20:58.040 --> 00:20:58.469
this.

963
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.699
Campaign in Iran seemed to be maybe one of their

964
00:21:03.439 --> 00:21:04.140
least

965
00:21:04.739 --> 00:21:05.920
successful operations.

966
00:21:07.199 --> 00:21:07.400
Well,

967
00:21:07.479 --> 00:21:08.260
it depends on,

968
00:21:09.319 --> 00:21:09.430
look,

969
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.030
it depends on how you define it,

970
00:21:11.060 --> 00:21:11.160
right?

971
00:21:11.199 --> 00:21:12.660
If you define it by did we

972
00:21:12.959 --> 00:21:15.000
meet the original stated objectives,

973
00:21:15.040 --> 00:21:15.369
yeah,

974
00:21:15.520 --> 00:21:16.270
it hasn't worked,

975
00:21:16.520 --> 00:21:16.959
right?

976
00:21:17.280 --> 00:21:17.900
Um.

977
00:21:19.069 --> 00:21:19.349
You know,

978
00:21:19.430 --> 00:21:20.849
if you just look at it

979
00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:22.930
in bite-size chunks,

980
00:21:23.229 --> 00:21:24.569
look at the decapitation

981
00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.890
operations,

982
00:21:26.469 --> 00:21:26.910
um,

983
00:21:27.069 --> 00:21:28.489
and say we've removed,

984
00:21:29.030 --> 00:21:29.459
uh,

985
00:21:29.469 --> 00:21:29.670
some,

986
00:21:29.829 --> 00:21:32.349
some of their senior leadership that we consider to be the,

987
00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:34.109
the most problematic.

988
00:21:34.630 --> 00:21:34.910
OK,

989
00:21:35.010 --> 00:21:36.260
just from an operational perspective.

990
00:21:36.300 --> 00:21:36.430
Again,

991
00:21:36.510 --> 00:21:37.180
I'm not talking about,

992
00:21:37.189 --> 00:21:37.780
and people are gonna go,

993
00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:38.030
ah,

994
00:21:38.069 --> 00:21:38.469
it's terrible.

995
00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:38.739
You can't.

996
00:21:39.750 --> 00:21:41.479
I'm not talking the morality of it all.

997
00:21:41.510 --> 00:21:43.439
I'm just saying from an operational perspective,

998
00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:43.869
you know,

999
00:21:43.989 --> 00:21:45.390
there are decapitation strikes,

1000
00:21:45.469 --> 00:21:47.869
the intelligence leading up to that initial hit.

1001
00:21:48.310 --> 00:21:49.329
Um,

1002
00:21:49.750 --> 00:21:51.380
that was pretty damn solid,

1003
00:21:52.270 --> 00:21:52.859
but

1004
00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:53.290
I,

1005
00:21:53.390 --> 00:21:53.540
I think,

1006
00:21:53.630 --> 00:21:53.699
look,

1007
00:21:53.810 --> 00:21:53.819
we,

1008
00:21:53.869 --> 00:21:57.750
and we've always relied on the Israelis very heavily for intel on

1009
00:21:58.030 --> 00:21:59.170
the Iranian regime

1010
00:21:59.510 --> 00:22:01.699
and their nuclear program and their missile program,

1011
00:22:01.709 --> 00:22:02.060
and

1012
00:22:03.239 --> 00:22:03.680
Um,

1013
00:22:03.689 --> 00:22:04.369
but look,

1014
00:22:04.449 --> 00:22:04.650
the,

1015
00:22:04.729 --> 00:22:05.390
the regime

1016
00:22:06.130 --> 00:22:07.560
ever since '79

1017
00:22:07.890 --> 00:22:08.589
has been

1018
00:22:09.390 --> 00:22:09.729
You know,

1019
00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:10.829
gaming this out.

1020
00:22:10.959 --> 00:22:11.689
And I think they,

1021
00:22:11.989 --> 00:22:12.189
they,

1022
00:22:12.310 --> 00:22:14.219
this is sort of their existential moment that

1023
00:22:14.219 --> 00:22:15.739
they've always assumed they would be in,

1024
00:22:16.150 --> 00:22:18.270
in part because their stated objective for all

1025
00:22:18.270 --> 00:22:20.050
these years has been to destroy Israel.

1026
00:22:20.189 --> 00:22:20.650
So,

1027
00:22:20.949 --> 00:22:21.109
you know,

1028
00:22:21.219 --> 00:22:21.390
they've,

1029
00:22:21.479 --> 00:22:22.920
they've had a lot of time to plan.

1030
00:22:23.069 --> 00:22:25.449
And so when you take out

1031
00:22:25.670 --> 00:22:26.380
leadership,

1032
00:22:26.550 --> 00:22:27.969
and then suddenly you see,

1033
00:22:28.430 --> 00:22:28.969
you know,

1034
00:22:29.390 --> 00:22:30.750
those posts being filled.

1035
00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:31.750
You think,

1036
00:22:31.800 --> 00:22:32.030
yeah,

1037
00:22:32.150 --> 00:22:36.310
they've got 3456 layers of talent that they've already identified.

1038
00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:37.430
This is what's going to happen.

1039
00:22:37.510 --> 00:22:38.689
This is how we're going to do this.

1040
00:22:39.069 --> 00:22:40.060
It doesn't mean that they're,

1041
00:22:40.229 --> 00:22:40.390
you know,

1042
00:22:40.589 --> 00:22:41.949
we're not talking about Lex Luthor.

1043
00:22:42.180 --> 00:22:42.930
Clearly they,

1044
00:22:43.229 --> 00:22:43.390
you know,

1045
00:22:43.510 --> 00:22:43.630
they,

1046
00:22:43.709 --> 00:22:44.670
they make a lot of mistakes,

1047
00:22:44.709 --> 00:22:45.040
but

1048
00:22:45.689 --> 00:22:45.810
Uh,

1049
00:22:45.819 --> 00:22:47.359
they've had time to figure this out.

1050
00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:48.060
And that's why again,

1051
00:22:48.150 --> 00:22:48.339
they're,

1052
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:49.619
they're stockpiles,

1053
00:22:49.739 --> 00:22:49.900
you know,

1054
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:52.579
talking about obliterating their military capabilities.

1055
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:53.020
Obviously,

1056
00:22:53.060 --> 00:22:53.619
we haven't.

1057
00:22:54.020 --> 00:22:55.640
And we haven't decimated their missile

1058
00:22:56.140 --> 00:22:58.400
program because otherwise we wouldn't have

1059
00:22:58.540 --> 00:23:01.250
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of target packages to hit

1060
00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:04.500
over the past couple of months if we had done that to begin with.

1061
00:23:04.579 --> 00:23:04.839
So,

1062
00:23:05.180 --> 00:23:05.459
they've,

1063
00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:07.180
they've really thought this through.

1064
00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:08.939
And that,

1065
00:23:09.339 --> 00:23:09.500
you know,

1066
00:23:09.579 --> 00:23:12.219
that that's contributing to some of the problems that we're seeing now,

1067
00:23:12.300 --> 00:23:12.569
but

1068
00:23:12.859 --> 00:23:13.300
Mossad,

1069
00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:13.500
look,

1070
00:23:13.619 --> 00:23:13.689
they,

1071
00:23:13.819 --> 00:23:14.420
these guys,

1072
00:23:14.619 --> 00:23:15.579
what are they talking about?

1073
00:23:16.790 --> 00:23:19.890
The Hezbollah operations where they're talking about what they're doing now and

1074
00:23:20.150 --> 00:23:23.170
taking out every single terrorist who was involved in the 7 October

1075
00:23:23.469 --> 00:23:25.069
2023 massacres in,

1076
00:23:25.130 --> 00:23:25.569
in Israel,

1077
00:23:25.709 --> 00:23:26.410
southern Israel.

1078
00:23:26.869 --> 00:23:27.369
Uh,

1079
00:23:28.609 --> 00:23:29.130
They,

1080
00:23:29.510 --> 00:23:29.849
again,

1081
00:23:29.969 --> 00:23:30.369
you know,

1082
00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:30.839
it's,

1083
00:23:30.890 --> 00:23:33.449
I know it's popular now to be really anti-Semitic and to,

1084
00:23:33.579 --> 00:23:35.109
to hate Israel and

1085
00:23:35.449 --> 00:23:36.849
seems to be sort of like the,

1086
00:23:36.930 --> 00:23:39.189
the way that progressives can get elected.

1087
00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:40.069
But

1088
00:23:40.569 --> 00:23:42.609
I'm just talking from an operational perspective.

1089
00:23:42.689 --> 00:23:43.170
They,

1090
00:23:43.290 --> 00:23:44.349
they know what they're doing.

1091
00:23:44.569 --> 00:23:45.130
And

1092
00:23:45.329 --> 00:23:46.349
they also are

1093
00:23:46.530 --> 00:23:47.979
surrounded by enemies,

1094
00:23:48.089 --> 00:23:48.270
right?

1095
00:23:48.339 --> 00:23:50.890
That's why Iran built this proxy network,

1096
00:23:51.290 --> 00:23:55.270
a ring of them around with all with the same objective which is to destroy Israel.

1097
00:23:55.650 --> 00:23:56.130
So,

1098
00:23:56.699 --> 00:23:57.130
You know,

1099
00:23:57.339 --> 00:23:57.510
if

1100
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:01.359
unless you put yourself in that perspective and understand what that means,

1101
00:24:01.939 --> 00:24:04.650
that you're living with that sort of existential threat every day,

1102
00:24:04.739 --> 00:24:05.089
then,

1103
00:24:05.300 --> 00:24:05.689
you know,

1104
00:24:05.900 --> 00:24:06.410
fuck off.

1105
00:24:06.459 --> 00:24:06.900
I mean,

1106
00:24:07.060 --> 00:24:07.219
you know,

1107
00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:07.500
it's,

1108
00:24:07.540 --> 00:24:08.079
it's,

1109
00:24:08.660 --> 00:24:08.819
you know,

1110
00:24:08.900 --> 00:24:09.000
I'm,

1111
00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:09.239
I,

1112
00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:09.660
again,

1113
00:24:09.729 --> 00:24:10.359
you can disagree,

1114
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:10.890
you can hate them,

1115
00:24:10.939 --> 00:24:11.260
whatever.

1116
00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:11.780
I don't care.

1117
00:24:11.859 --> 00:24:12.599
I'm just saying

1118
00:24:12.979 --> 00:24:15.180
you have to understand their perspective at least.

1119
00:24:15.339 --> 00:24:15.500
Like,

1120
00:24:15.510 --> 00:24:17.729
just like you have to understand your enemy's perspective,

1121
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:18.319
and

1122
00:24:18.459 --> 00:24:19.900
which we don't do very well,

1123
00:24:19.979 --> 00:24:20.640
frankly.

1124
00:24:20.939 --> 00:24:21.510
Um.

1125
00:24:21.969 --> 00:24:22.130
You know,

1126
00:24:22.209 --> 00:24:22.849
Afghanistan,

1127
00:24:23.089 --> 00:24:23.430
Iraq,

1128
00:24:23.609 --> 00:24:24.760
those are all good examples,

1129
00:24:24.890 --> 00:24:26.030
recent examples of

1130
00:24:26.209 --> 00:24:27.310
how we have a hard time.

1131
00:24:29.619 --> 00:24:32.280
Understanding how the other side processes things.

1132
00:24:32.780 --> 00:24:33.819
And Israel is real,

1133
00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:36.540
they're great at understanding that because they're,

1134
00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:37.140
they're,

1135
00:24:37.540 --> 00:24:38.010
they're,

1136
00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:38.599
they,

1137
00:24:38.619 --> 00:24:39.719
they have

1138
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:42.359
a large part of their population is Arab.

1139
00:24:42.739 --> 00:24:43.920
They understand

1140
00:24:44.180 --> 00:24:46.560
what uh a lot of the problems very well there

1141
00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:47.339
and it's,

1142
00:24:47.459 --> 00:24:51.339
so we're working on an episode right now for the YouTube channel about,

1143
00:24:51.780 --> 00:24:52.239
uh,

1144
00:24:52.260 --> 00:24:55.579
Mossad's targeted killing campaign since October 7th

1145
00:24:55.579 --> 00:24:57.589
and kind of just the history of

1146
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.339
Their whole rise and kill philosophy

1147
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.660
and how they do assassination missions

1148
00:25:03.800 --> 00:25:04.380
in

1149
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.359
over the last,

1150
00:25:05.479 --> 00:25:05.569
well,

1151
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:06.380
they've done them

1152
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:08.109
since the 1940s,

1153
00:25:08.199 --> 00:25:08.589
but

1154
00:25:08.900 --> 00:25:09.420
um

1155
00:25:09.530 --> 00:25:11.209
most recently they've stepped it up,

1156
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:12.300
they've stepped up their game,

1157
00:25:12.439 --> 00:25:13.290
I guess you could say,

1158
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.180
they've really taken it to a new level.

1159
00:25:15.479 --> 00:25:16.260
Um,

1160
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:17.479
and

1161
00:25:17.719 --> 00:25:17.839
yeah,

1162
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:19.439
it's fascinating that

1163
00:25:19.540 --> 00:25:20.060
that

1164
00:25:20.520 --> 00:25:20.790
have you,

1165
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:22.839
if I don't know if you've tracked it at all much,

1166
00:25:22.959 --> 00:25:23.339
but

1167
00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:24.160
Um,

1168
00:25:24.300 --> 00:25:26.770
they must have incredible human,

1169
00:25:26.969 --> 00:25:31.060
they must just have incredible human intelligence that for some reason like we

1170
00:25:31.890 --> 00:25:32.099
Yeah,

1171
00:25:32.209 --> 00:25:32.420
uh,

1172
00:25:32.479 --> 00:25:34.479
don't seem to be able to get that same level of,

1173
00:25:35.780 --> 00:25:36.640
of intelligence

1174
00:25:36.939 --> 00:25:37.500
that they have.

1175
00:25:38.199 --> 00:25:38.540
Well,

1176
00:25:38.760 --> 00:25:39.359
they're

1177
00:25:40.489 --> 00:25:40.930
I mean,

1178
00:25:41.170 --> 00:25:41.560
again,

1179
00:25:41.890 --> 00:25:42.089
you know,

1180
00:25:42.209 --> 00:25:42.750
they,

1181
00:25:43.290 --> 00:25:44.150
they've sort of

1182
00:25:44.369 --> 00:25:45.750
singularly focused,

1183
00:25:45.930 --> 00:25:46.339
right?

1184
00:25:46.849 --> 00:25:50.250
From an intel community in the US we've got lots of different tasks,

1185
00:25:50.369 --> 00:25:50.530
right?

1186
00:25:50.609 --> 00:25:51.880
A lot of different concerns.

1187
00:25:51.969 --> 00:25:52.270
So

1188
00:25:52.530 --> 00:25:54.069
we're all over the map.

1189
00:25:54.449 --> 00:25:55.010
Um

1190
00:25:55.719 --> 00:25:56.170
Israel,

1191
00:25:56.339 --> 00:25:56.810
Shin Bet,

1192
00:25:56.930 --> 00:25:57.599
Mossad,

1193
00:25:57.849 --> 00:25:58.089
you know,

1194
00:25:58.170 --> 00:25:58.329
the,

1195
00:25:58.449 --> 00:25:59.160
the IDF,

1196
00:25:59.290 --> 00:25:59.630
they,

1197
00:26:00.209 --> 00:26:00.479
they,

1198
00:26:00.770 --> 00:26:02.160
they've got this one problem,

1199
00:26:02.250 --> 00:26:02.449
right?

1200
00:26:02.689 --> 00:26:03.579
For the most part.

1201
00:26:04.010 --> 00:26:04.689
And

1202
00:26:04.930 --> 00:26:06.680
that's what they have to focus on.

1203
00:26:06.930 --> 00:26:08.650
Technology has certainly helped them,

1204
00:26:08.790 --> 00:26:08.959
you know,

1205
00:26:09.209 --> 00:26:10.560
everything from facial recognition,

1206
00:26:10.770 --> 00:26:12.390
which has been remarkable,

1207
00:26:12.770 --> 00:26:14.729
to just the fact that these,

1208
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:15.050
you know,

1209
00:26:15.130 --> 00:26:18.250
when the douchebags streamed across the border on 7th October,

1210
00:26:18.489 --> 00:26:19.670
a lot of them were carrying

1211
00:26:19.930 --> 00:26:20.709
cameras and

1212
00:26:20.930 --> 00:26:22.770
videotape their atrocities,

1213
00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:23.170
right?

1214
00:26:23.290 --> 00:26:23.819
So,

1215
00:26:24.170 --> 00:26:24.329
you know,

1216
00:26:24.449 --> 00:26:24.910
the

1217
00:26:25.329 --> 00:26:25.609
You know,

1218
00:26:25.689 --> 00:26:27.489
the Israeli intelligence services,

1219
00:26:27.530 --> 00:26:27.930
they had,

1220
00:26:28.239 --> 00:26:28.449
they,

1221
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:32.989
they had a lot of material in a sense that was handed over to them by the enemy.

1222
00:26:33.369 --> 00:26:34.010
Um,

1223
00:26:34.280 --> 00:26:37.760
and so they've used that and they've used their source network,

1224
00:26:37.770 --> 00:26:41.140
which they've spent years and years and years building.

1225
00:26:42.030 --> 00:26:42.670
Um,

1226
00:26:42.949 --> 00:26:43.729
to

1227
00:26:44.069 --> 00:26:45.650
put together this target list,

1228
00:26:45.989 --> 00:26:48.400
and then they methodically work through the target list,

1229
00:26:48.829 --> 00:26:49.430
uh,

1230
00:26:49.790 --> 00:26:49.989
you know,

1231
00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:50.510
and

1232
00:26:52.949 --> 00:26:53.069
Yeah,

1233
00:26:53.270 --> 00:26:53.339
again,

1234
00:26:53.430 --> 00:26:53.859
I know it's,

1235
00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:54.069
it's,

1236
00:26:54.109 --> 00:26:54.349
it's,

1237
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.619
it's such an interesting moment in time,

1238
00:26:56.829 --> 00:26:57.069
right?

1239
00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:57.849
Because

1240
00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:00.250
here in the US.

1241
00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:01.579
Um,

1242
00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:03.479
It just seems

1243
00:27:04.329 --> 00:27:05.189
To be

1244
00:27:05.489 --> 00:27:06.969
the flavor of the day,

1245
00:27:07.250 --> 00:27:07.489
you know,

1246
00:27:07.609 --> 00:27:08.770
to be whatever you want.

1247
00:27:08.849 --> 00:27:09.310
I know that

1248
00:27:09.439 --> 00:27:10.550
a lot of people say I'm not,

1249
00:27:10.829 --> 00:27:11.930
I'm not anti-Semitic.

1250
00:27:12.010 --> 00:27:12.280
I'm,

1251
00:27:12.369 --> 00:27:13.729
I'm anti-Zionist,

1252
00:27:13.810 --> 00:27:14.130
you know.

1253
00:27:14.209 --> 00:27:17.790
But I think there's a lot of anti-Semites hiding underneath that label too.

1254
00:27:18.329 --> 00:27:20.150
And it's just convenient

1255
00:27:20.530 --> 00:27:21.290
to be able to say that.

1256
00:27:21.390 --> 00:27:21.569
I,

1257
00:27:21.650 --> 00:27:22.569
I just don't like Israel.

1258
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:23.959
I love Jews,

1259
00:27:24.030 --> 00:27:25.030
but I don't like Israel.

1260
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:26.020
And

1261
00:27:26.239 --> 00:27:26.790
so,

1262
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:27.680
it's a strange,

1263
00:27:27.760 --> 00:27:29.500
it's a strange moment in time,

1264
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:31.750
but they're gonna do what they do,

1265
00:27:31.760 --> 00:27:32.359
because again,

1266
00:27:32.439 --> 00:27:33.680
they're surrounded by enemies,

1267
00:27:33.689 --> 00:27:34.479
and

1268
00:27:34.719 --> 00:27:35.469
for them,

1269
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:36.000
you know,

1270
00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:37.270
from their perspective again.

1271
00:27:37.560 --> 00:27:37.719
Again,

1272
00:27:37.790 --> 00:27:38.640
I'm not saying right or wrong,

1273
00:27:38.699 --> 00:27:40.219
I'm just saying from their perspective,

1274
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.420
they have no choice.

1275
00:27:43.689 --> 00:27:44.969
They're constantly in the fight.

1276
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:47.829
It's an existential threat

1277
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:49.329
to them,

1278
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:50.959
or they see it as

1279
00:27:51.280 --> 00:27:51.810
that,

1280
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:52.479
yeah,

1281
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:53.400
they've um

1282
00:27:56.119 --> 00:27:56.949
Uh,

1283
00:27:57.650 --> 00:27:58.810
since October 7th,

1284
00:27:58.890 --> 00:27:59.390
it's been

1285
00:27:59.729 --> 00:28:00.640
a pretty successful.

1286
00:28:00.729 --> 00:28:02.510
The beeper campaign pager,

1287
00:28:02.530 --> 00:28:03.050
uh,

1288
00:28:03.510 --> 00:28:03.939
campaign

1289
00:28:04.089 --> 00:28:04.650
was

1290
00:28:05.439 --> 00:28:07.380
May maybe one of the most creative.

1291
00:28:08.729 --> 00:28:09.869
Kill campaigns

1292
00:28:10.010 --> 00:28:10.660
ever,

1293
00:28:11.170 --> 00:28:11.369
uh,

1294
00:28:11.449 --> 00:28:14.349
the way they interdicted that that whole system

1295
00:28:14.930 --> 00:28:15.439
just

1296
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:17.319
Yeah,

1297
00:28:17.469 --> 00:28:17.680
yeah,

1298
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:18.119
very,

1299
00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:19.790
very creative ways of killing people.

1300
00:28:19.959 --> 00:28:19.969
Well,

1301
00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:21.060
technically speaking,

1302
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:23.579
and just again from an operational perspective.

1303
00:28:24.579 --> 00:28:25.390
Um,

1304
00:28:27.050 --> 00:28:27.329
You know,

1305
00:28:27.489 --> 00:28:27.609
it,

1306
00:28:27.729 --> 00:28:28.050
it

1307
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:28.880
They,

1308
00:28:28.959 --> 00:28:30.839
they almost created the need,

1309
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:31.359
right?

1310
00:28:31.479 --> 00:28:31.819
Within

1311
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:33.060
Hezbollah to,

1312
00:28:33.479 --> 00:28:34.020
to

1313
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:35.979
create a new communication system.

1314
00:28:35.989 --> 00:28:36.510
And then they,

1315
00:28:36.760 --> 00:28:37.430
then they,

1316
00:28:37.719 --> 00:28:39.040
they supplied that system,

1317
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:39.510
which is,

1318
00:28:39.560 --> 00:28:40.219
is

1319
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:41.000
remarkable.

1320
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:41.780
It took time,

1321
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:42.810
um,

1322
00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:43.380
and a

1323
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:44.630
shit ton of work,

1324
00:28:44.719 --> 00:28:45.760
but it uh

1325
00:28:46.719 --> 00:28:46.880
Yeah,

1326
00:28:47.040 --> 00:28:48.609
creative is probably the best word for it,

1327
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:49.319
and you have to do that,

1328
00:28:49.420 --> 00:28:49.520
right?

1329
00:28:49.560 --> 00:28:49.739
I mean,

1330
00:28:49.760 --> 00:28:50.239
you

1331
00:28:51.219 --> 00:28:51.569
You know,

1332
00:28:51.739 --> 00:28:54.930
you sit around the table and you try to come up with ideas,

1333
00:28:55.180 --> 00:28:55.420
right?

1334
00:28:55.530 --> 00:28:56.069
And

1335
00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:59.900
oftentimes that's one of the most difficult things to do is to get outside the box

1336
00:29:00.219 --> 00:29:02.579
in an operationally realistic way,

1337
00:29:02.739 --> 00:29:02.939
right?

1338
00:29:03.020 --> 00:29:03.380
You can say,

1339
00:29:03.420 --> 00:29:03.579
OK,

1340
00:29:03.729 --> 00:29:05.939
well we can put laser beams on the moon and then fire down it,

1341
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:06.209
uh,

1342
00:29:06.380 --> 00:29:06.540
you know,

1343
00:29:06.780 --> 00:29:07.619
set all that aside,

1344
00:29:07.699 --> 00:29:07.890
but,

1345
00:29:07.939 --> 00:29:08.099
you know,

1346
00:29:08.219 --> 00:29:09.449
just in terms of coming up with,

1347
00:29:09.500 --> 00:29:09.959
with

1348
00:29:10.579 --> 00:29:12.479
creative ideas that could,

1349
00:29:13.099 --> 00:29:13.609
uh,

1350
00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:14.819
be developed,

1351
00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:15.339
right?

1352
00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:15.949
Uh,

1353
00:29:16.099 --> 00:29:17.489
and taken off the shelf that

1354
00:29:17.890 --> 00:29:19.349
That's really critical.

1355
00:29:19.569 --> 00:29:22.530
And a lot of times we saw in the global war on terror,

1356
00:29:22.609 --> 00:29:23.849
we were always sort of reacting.

1357
00:29:23.930 --> 00:29:24.849
We weren't proactive.

1358
00:29:24.930 --> 00:29:25.099
We,

1359
00:29:25.209 --> 00:29:27.229
we're reacting to the last attack,

1360
00:29:27.489 --> 00:29:27.650
right?

1361
00:29:27.729 --> 00:29:27.969
In the,

1362
00:29:28.040 --> 00:29:28.770
in the format,

1363
00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:29.750
and the methodology,

1364
00:29:30.250 --> 00:29:32.969
and then rather than thinking what else are they might maybe going to do,

1365
00:29:33.209 --> 00:29:33.369
right?

1366
00:29:33.930 --> 00:29:34.430
Uh,

1367
00:29:34.650 --> 00:29:35.050
so.

1368
00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:36.140
Yeah,

1369
00:29:36.280 --> 00:29:37.089
it's um

1370
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:38.689
There's,

1371
00:29:39.199 --> 00:29:42.699
there's something morbidly funny about thinking about a bunch of Mossad

1372
00:29:43.219 --> 00:29:44.979
officers sitting around a table,

1373
00:29:45.219 --> 00:29:47.680
thinking of creative ways to kill terrorists.

1374
00:29:49.109 --> 00:29:49.760
Yeah,

1375
00:29:49.959 --> 00:29:50.719
um,

1376
00:29:51.989 --> 00:29:52.510
But

1377
00:29:52.910 --> 00:29:53.310
yeah,

1378
00:29:53.479 --> 00:29:54.780
I'm taking a lot of heat for this,

1379
00:29:54.829 --> 00:29:56.109
but I mean someone's got to,

1380
00:29:56.550 --> 00:29:56.869
right?

1381
00:29:56.959 --> 00:29:57.290
Um,

1382
00:29:57.390 --> 00:29:58.349
the terrorists aren't gonna,

1383
00:29:58.510 --> 00:29:58.630
they,

1384
00:29:58.709 --> 00:29:58.829
they,

1385
00:29:58.869 --> 00:29:59.800
they don't get tired of,

1386
00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:00.780
of being terrorists,

1387
00:30:00.869 --> 00:30:01.010
right?

1388
00:30:01.069 --> 00:30:02.869
And we all get tired of the global war on terror,

1389
00:30:02.949 --> 00:30:04.160
we got fatigue and

1390
00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:05.290
just wanna move on,

1391
00:30:05.430 --> 00:30:05.550
right?

1392
00:30:05.709 --> 00:30:06.150
Rightly so,

1393
00:30:06.229 --> 00:30:06.430
OK,

1394
00:30:06.550 --> 00:30:06.640
it's,

1395
00:30:06.709 --> 00:30:06.949
it's,

1396
00:30:07.030 --> 00:30:07.430
you know.

1397
00:30:08.390 --> 00:30:09.979
There was problems inside that,

1398
00:30:09.989 --> 00:30:10.390
and there was,

1399
00:30:10.430 --> 00:30:10.630
you know,

1400
00:30:10.709 --> 00:30:12.050
there was some necessities and,

1401
00:30:12.510 --> 00:30:12.869
but

1402
00:30:13.989 --> 00:30:14.229
You know,

1403
00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:14.890
they don't

1404
00:30:15.069 --> 00:30:15.859
get tired of it.

1405
00:30:16.229 --> 00:30:19.229
And so we don't live in a community of nations around

1406
00:30:19.229 --> 00:30:22.229
the world where we're all fucking holding hands and singing kumbaya and

1407
00:30:22.869 --> 00:30:24.729
unicorns all flying out of our ass.

1408
00:30:24.780 --> 00:30:25.109
Uh,

1409
00:30:25.180 --> 00:30:26.589
it just doesn't happen that way.

1410
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:28.140
So you have to,

1411
00:30:28.310 --> 00:30:29.369
there has to be an element

1412
00:30:29.750 --> 00:30:30.369
that is

1413
00:30:30.630 --> 00:30:31.650
focused on

1414
00:30:31.949 --> 00:30:32.030
the,

1415
00:30:32.150 --> 00:30:32.270
you know,

1416
00:30:32.390 --> 00:30:33.900
the outside security and,

1417
00:30:33.949 --> 00:30:34.780
and how do you,

1418
00:30:35.069 --> 00:30:37.510
because ultimately every government's responsibility is

1419
00:30:37.510 --> 00:30:38.979
the security of its citizens.

1420
00:30:39.229 --> 00:30:39.689
That's

1421
00:30:40.420 --> 00:30:40.619
That's,

1422
00:30:40.699 --> 00:30:41.540
that's what it is.

1423
00:30:41.780 --> 00:30:42.219
But

1424
00:30:42.420 --> 00:30:43.359
I know that again,

1425
00:30:43.859 --> 00:30:47.489
I'd love if we all lived in a community of nations and we all held hands.

1426
00:30:47.829 --> 00:30:48.739
I'd love a unicorn,

1427
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:49.770
not coming out of my ass,

1428
00:30:49.819 --> 00:30:50.660
but I'd love a unicorn.

1429
00:30:50.739 --> 00:30:51.260
That'd be cool.

1430
00:30:52.989 --> 00:30:53.189
Yep,

1431
00:30:53.280 --> 00:30:53.430
yeah,

1432
00:30:53.510 --> 00:30:53.750
it would be,

1433
00:30:53.829 --> 00:30:55.050
it would be great.

1434
00:30:55.979 --> 00:30:56.540
I don't know.

1435
00:30:56.630 --> 00:30:58.089
I haven't had enough coffee this morning.

1436
00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:00.170
They,

1437
00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:00.800
uh

1438
00:31:01.699 --> 00:31:01.979
Yeah,

1439
00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:02.560
they've,

1440
00:31:03.099 --> 00:31:03.680
I guess they,

1441
00:31:03.739 --> 00:31:04.400
they take

1442
00:31:05.020 --> 00:31:06.010
recently more

1443
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.459
operational risks than maybe the CIA

1444
00:31:09.619 --> 00:31:11.739
and American intelligence would be comfortable with.

1445
00:31:11.939 --> 00:31:12.130
Uh,

1446
00:31:12.219 --> 00:31:14.209
some of their hits have been on

1447
00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:15.520
places that maybe

1448
00:31:15.939 --> 00:31:16.400
we would

1449
00:31:17.140 --> 00:31:18.359
identify as like,

1450
00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:18.540
oh,

1451
00:31:18.579 --> 00:31:20.239
that there's gonna be blowback for that.

1452
00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:20.780
We're gonna,

1453
00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:23.109
we're gonna hit them in Syria in their

1454
00:31:23.699 --> 00:31:25.760
consulate or possible consulate,

1455
00:31:25.939 --> 00:31:27.079
whatever the case was,

1456
00:31:27.380 --> 00:31:27.900
um,

1457
00:31:28.339 --> 00:31:28.540
yeah,

1458
00:31:28.660 --> 00:31:28.859
they,

1459
00:31:28.939 --> 00:31:29.599
they take.

1460
00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:30.959
They go for,

1461
00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:31.359
they,

1462
00:31:31.420 --> 00:31:32.099
they swing big.

1463
00:31:33.650 --> 00:31:34.359
They do.

1464
00:31:34.459 --> 00:31:34.650
Uh,

1465
00:31:34.729 --> 00:31:35.260
we've got,

1466
00:31:35.410 --> 00:31:36.810
we've certainly got more constraints.

1467
00:31:36.849 --> 00:31:37.760
There's no doubt about that,

1468
00:31:37.810 --> 00:31:39.229
and those constraints are good,

1469
00:31:39.410 --> 00:31:39.569
right?

1470
00:31:39.650 --> 00:31:42.430
You've always got to do a risk versus gain calculation,

1471
00:31:42.489 --> 00:31:43.040
um,

1472
00:31:43.209 --> 00:31:44.959
and a lot of people don't think that actually

1473
00:31:44.959 --> 00:31:46.920
happens cause they've watched too many big feature films,

1474
00:31:47.010 --> 00:31:47.750
but it does.

1475
00:31:48.250 --> 00:31:49.000
And,

1476
00:31:49.010 --> 00:31:49.750
um,

1477
00:31:50.770 --> 00:31:51.109
so they,

1478
00:31:51.170 --> 00:31:52.030
they do take

1479
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:53.479
They,

1480
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:53.800
they,

1481
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:55.040
I don't wanna say they have more of a risk

1482
00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:58.099
appetite because that makes it sound just sort of cavalier.

1483
00:31:58.520 --> 00:31:59.160
Um,

1484
00:31:59.400 --> 00:31:59.859
but

1485
00:32:00.280 --> 00:32:02.699
they approach it again from

1486
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:04.420
their perspective,

1487
00:32:04.800 --> 00:32:05.150
right?

1488
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:05.930
And

1489
00:32:06.239 --> 00:32:07.380
in that case,

1490
00:32:07.689 --> 00:32:09.699
they're willing to deal with more blowback,

1491
00:32:10.239 --> 00:32:10.469
right?

1492
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:12.500
Because of the enemy that they're dealing with.

1493
00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:13.709
And,

1494
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:14.160
you know,

1495
00:32:14.239 --> 00:32:14.520
with the,

1496
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:15.619
with the agency,

1497
00:32:15.729 --> 00:32:15.959
you know,

1498
00:32:16.040 --> 00:32:17.640
there were constant moments where you thought,

1499
00:32:17.719 --> 00:32:17.800
well,

1500
00:32:17.869 --> 00:32:19.069
let's just do this,

1501
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:19.849
shall we?

1502
00:32:20.239 --> 00:32:21.359
But you knew.

1503
00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:21.939
You know,

1504
00:32:22.020 --> 00:32:22.329
and I would,

1505
00:32:22.540 --> 00:32:24.640
I never sat up on the top floor

1506
00:32:24.819 --> 00:32:25.099
at the,

1507
00:32:25.150 --> 00:32:25.939
at the agency.

1508
00:32:26.010 --> 00:32:27.079
That's not my job,

1509
00:32:27.180 --> 00:32:27.339
right?

1510
00:32:27.410 --> 00:32:29.359
And it wasn't my job to second guess

1511
00:32:29.699 --> 00:32:30.280
the senior,

1512
00:32:30.859 --> 00:32:31.020
you know,

1513
00:32:31.099 --> 00:32:31.650
executives,

1514
00:32:31.699 --> 00:32:32.660
the directors of the,

1515
00:32:32.780 --> 00:32:32.979
you know,

1516
00:32:33.089 --> 00:32:33.719
the uh

1517
00:32:34.609 --> 00:32:35.099
operational groups.

1518
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:35.290
I,

1519
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:36.459
it wasn't my job.

1520
00:32:36.780 --> 00:32:37.260
So,

1521
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:38.239
You know,

1522
00:32:38.329 --> 00:32:41.579
you'd propose an operation or you'd start getting geared up for an operation,

1523
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:42.390
and then suddenly,

1524
00:32:42.510 --> 00:32:42.719
you know,

1525
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:43.270
they'd say,

1526
00:32:43.280 --> 00:32:43.510
nah,

1527
00:32:43.660 --> 00:32:43.670
yeah,

1528
00:32:43.760 --> 00:32:45.880
it's uh we can't afford the blowback.

1529
00:32:46.810 --> 00:32:47.589
And,

1530
00:32:48.089 --> 00:32:48.329
you know,

1531
00:32:48.439 --> 00:32:52.150
we had some folks who were at the agency who then got out and didn't get

1532
00:32:52.150 --> 00:32:55.400
enough hugs or whatever or imagined that if the agency had just listened to them,

1533
00:32:55.449 --> 00:32:57.270
we wouldn't have this problem or that problem.

1534
00:32:57.569 --> 00:32:58.630
I never felt that way.

1535
00:32:58.689 --> 00:32:59.640
I was always sort of like,

1536
00:32:59.689 --> 00:33:00.010
OK,

1537
00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:00.449
you know.

1538
00:33:01.689 --> 00:33:02.520
What are we supposed to do?

1539
00:33:02.650 --> 00:33:02.890
Do it,

1540
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:03.589
move on.

1541
00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:04.790
Um,

1542
00:33:05.550 --> 00:33:05.560
I,

1543
00:33:05.569 --> 00:33:05.890
I don't,

1544
00:33:06.010 --> 00:33:06.449
I don't.

1545
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:07.930
You would like to

1546
00:33:08.069 --> 00:33:10.369
dive into the angst portion of life too much.

1547
00:33:11.550 --> 00:33:11.930
Yeah,

1548
00:33:12.030 --> 00:33:13.130
I feel you on that.

1549
00:33:13.550 --> 00:33:17.060
There's something that's flying under the radar right now a bit,

1550
00:33:17.589 --> 00:33:19.709
which is what's happening in Cuba,

1551
00:33:19.869 --> 00:33:20.770
and people

1552
00:33:20.910 --> 00:33:21.609
are

1553
00:33:21.790 --> 00:33:23.209
really not tracking this,

1554
00:33:23.229 --> 00:33:25.359
and um it might sneak up on them

1555
00:33:25.699 --> 00:33:26.060
soon,

1556
00:33:26.390 --> 00:33:26.750
but

1557
00:33:27.229 --> 00:33:27.410
yeah.

1558
00:33:27.670 --> 00:33:30.910
There was just some recent information about what the CIA,

1559
00:33:31.030 --> 00:33:33.150
the CIA is going back to Cuba

1560
00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:34.510
at this time,

1561
00:33:34.709 --> 00:33:36.130
maybe with better results,

1562
00:33:36.589 --> 00:33:37.900
but I was wondering if,

1563
00:33:37.949 --> 00:33:40.109
if you've been tracking that and what your thoughts are.

1564
00:33:40.670 --> 00:33:41.150
Yeah,

1565
00:33:41.260 --> 00:33:41.709
uh,

1566
00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:42.390
it's interesting,

1567
00:33:42.469 --> 00:33:42.829
isn't it?

1568
00:33:42.869 --> 00:33:44.459
How we live in this world where,

1569
00:33:44.510 --> 00:33:44.670
I mean,

1570
00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:44.810
look,

1571
00:33:44.869 --> 00:33:44.979
we,

1572
00:33:45.109 --> 00:33:45.260
we,

1573
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.069
we honestly shouldn't even be talking about,

1574
00:33:47.150 --> 00:33:47.349
I mean,

1575
00:33:47.390 --> 00:33:47.670
the,

1576
00:33:48.150 --> 00:33:50.310
the agency is sending more personnel

1577
00:33:50.469 --> 00:33:51.270
on the island.

1578
00:33:51.609 --> 00:33:51.630
You know,

1579
00:33:51.670 --> 00:33:53.150
the idea that we're talking about that is,

1580
00:33:53.189 --> 00:33:53.390
is,

1581
00:33:53.459 --> 00:33:54.729
it's simply because

1582
00:33:54.869 --> 00:33:55.719
somebody somewhere,

1583
00:33:55.949 --> 00:33:56.109
you know,

1584
00:33:56.229 --> 00:33:57.510
couldn't keep their pie hole shut.

1585
00:33:57.869 --> 00:33:58.510
So the next thing you know,

1586
00:33:58.550 --> 00:33:59.439
it's in the media.

1587
00:33:59.790 --> 00:34:00.489
And,

1588
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:01.000
uh,

1589
00:34:01.069 --> 00:34:02.060
and people like,

1590
00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:03.650
like us are talking about it.

1591
00:34:03.750 --> 00:34:04.290
Uh,

1592
00:34:04.869 --> 00:34:05.339
so,

1593
00:34:05.969 --> 00:34:06.599
Cuba is a,

1594
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:07.349
is a

1595
00:34:07.770 --> 00:34:08.909
fascinating

1596
00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:09.708
uh

1597
00:34:10.399 --> 00:34:11.949
situation happening 90 miles

1598
00:34:12.050 --> 00:34:13.708
off the coast of Florida.

1599
00:34:13.969 --> 00:34:14.469
And

1600
00:34:14.810 --> 00:34:15.489
you're right.

1601
00:34:15.810 --> 00:34:17.449
Not a lot of people paying attention to it.

1602
00:34:17.570 --> 00:34:18.208
I'll tell you who is,

1603
00:34:18.290 --> 00:34:20.639
is the Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

1604
00:34:20.750 --> 00:34:21.199
He's,

1605
00:34:21.610 --> 00:34:22.850
he's very focused on,

1606
00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:23.668
on Cuba.

1607
00:34:24.010 --> 00:34:24.590
Um,

1608
00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:25.850
there have been

1609
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:27.478
All sorts of talks,

1610
00:34:27.878 --> 00:34:28.388
uh,

1611
00:34:28.398 --> 00:34:29.349
back channel talks,

1612
00:34:29.358 --> 00:34:30.658
a little bit like

1613
00:34:30.839 --> 00:34:33.268
what you were talking about earlier with Venezuela,

1614
00:34:33.638 --> 00:34:33.878
trying to,

1615
00:34:33.998 --> 00:34:34.158
you know,

1616
00:34:34.358 --> 00:34:35.138
set the table,

1617
00:34:35.398 --> 00:34:35.978
try to find,

1618
00:34:36.518 --> 00:34:37.059
uh,

1619
00:34:37.358 --> 00:34:40.339
is there possibly a peaceful transitional

1620
00:34:40.998 --> 00:34:41.878
opportunity out there,

1621
00:34:41.967 --> 00:34:43.099
getting away from,

1622
00:34:43.518 --> 00:34:43.829
uh,

1623
00:34:43.839 --> 00:34:45.259
the existing regime.

1624
00:34:45.878 --> 00:34:47.947
And so there have been some talks with,

1625
00:34:47.958 --> 00:34:48.378
uh,

1626
00:34:48.388 --> 00:34:49.589
Raul Castro's,

1627
00:34:49.829 --> 00:34:50.388
uh,

1628
00:34:50.398 --> 00:34:51.029
grandson,

1629
00:34:51.148 --> 00:34:51.599
Ralito,

1630
00:34:52.118 --> 00:34:52.918
um,

1631
00:34:53.438 --> 00:34:53.998
and

1632
00:34:55.458 --> 00:34:55.649
You know,

1633
00:34:55.699 --> 00:34:56.300
I think that's,

1634
00:34:56.379 --> 00:34:58.300
that's an interesting potential development.

1635
00:34:58.620 --> 00:34:59.020
But look,

1636
00:34:59.100 --> 00:34:59.540
that

1637
00:34:59.959 --> 00:35:01.139
economy is in freefall.

1638
00:35:01.340 --> 00:35:01.489
You know,

1639
00:35:01.580 --> 00:35:04.199
there has been some humanitarian aid now going in,

1640
00:35:04.540 --> 00:35:05.250
um,

1641
00:35:05.620 --> 00:35:05.899
you know,

1642
00:35:06.020 --> 00:35:06.939
that the US has said,

1643
00:35:07.020 --> 00:35:07.139
yeah,

1644
00:35:07.219 --> 00:35:07.399
OK,

1645
00:35:07.530 --> 00:35:07.659
look,

1646
00:35:07.780 --> 00:35:07.939
you know,

1647
00:35:08.060 --> 00:35:08.550
you can't.

1648
00:35:09.219 --> 00:35:09.229
because

1649
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:10.840
again,

1650
00:35:11.229 --> 00:35:14.350
that the regime will push that pain much like in Iran down to the people,

1651
00:35:14.439 --> 00:35:14.570
right?

1652
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:15.139
So then

1653
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:15.800
you can say,

1654
00:35:15.899 --> 00:35:16.000
well,

1655
00:35:16.030 --> 00:35:16.419
let's

1656
00:35:16.659 --> 00:35:17.280
keep the blockade,

1657
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:18.120
let's keep all the sanctions,

1658
00:35:18.139 --> 00:35:18.479
etc.

1659
00:35:18.550 --> 00:35:18.879
etc.

1660
00:35:18.989 --> 00:35:20.760
but you have to also be pragmatic and

1661
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.610
understand you're creating a potential humanitarian crisis.

1662
00:35:23.959 --> 00:35:25.540
So that has to be managed

1663
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:26.860
properly and

1664
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:28.879
So who knows?

1665
00:35:28.919 --> 00:35:29.070
I,

1666
00:35:29.149 --> 00:35:29.729
I think this is a,

1667
00:35:29.959 --> 00:35:31.340
it is a fascinating moment.

1668
00:35:31.510 --> 00:35:31.949
Uh,

1669
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:32.860
and I think

1670
00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:37.439
perhaps the White House is kind of keen to declare victory in Iran and move on.

1671
00:35:37.479 --> 00:35:37.860
And

1672
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:39.100
I think

1673
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:40.629
when they move on,

1674
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.659
it will be 90 miles off the coast of Florida.

1675
00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:46.739
So maybe an ECW they could grab.

1676
00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:47.919
Something about,

1677
00:35:48.080 --> 00:35:51.939
so something about related to this story that I wanted to ask you about

1678
00:35:52.750 --> 00:35:52.959
is,

1679
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:54.129
so you spent

1680
00:35:54.870 --> 00:35:55.159
Uh,

1681
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:57.399
well over a decade and a half,

1682
00:35:57.570 --> 00:35:59.459
a half in the agency,

1683
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:03.750
and I'm sure you went through different directors while you were there,

1684
00:36:03.959 --> 00:36:04.159
uh,

1685
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:05.590
heads of the agency.

1686
00:36:05.919 --> 00:36:10.179
So John Ratcliffe is the current director of the CIA and he went

1687
00:36:10.479 --> 00:36:11.780
to Cuba recently,

1688
00:36:11.879 --> 00:36:12.189
um,

1689
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:13.209
basically kind of

1690
00:36:13.969 --> 00:36:16.129
Threatened them and not so many words said like,

1691
00:36:16.489 --> 00:36:19.870
hey you guys be in your interest if you uh changed course.

1692
00:36:20.419 --> 00:36:21.560
I was wondering,

1693
00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:22.919
how much does

1694
00:36:23.100 --> 00:36:25.300
the director of the CIA

1695
00:36:25.709 --> 00:36:26.120
like,

1696
00:36:27.179 --> 00:36:29.060
what does that really change,

1697
00:36:29.139 --> 00:36:29.729
you know,

1698
00:36:30.010 --> 00:36:32.320
is it like you have one director and

1699
00:36:32.449 --> 00:36:33.139
this guy's like,

1700
00:36:33.379 --> 00:36:33.860
go ham,

1701
00:36:33.899 --> 00:36:34.379
guys,

1702
00:36:34.620 --> 00:36:35.860
do whatever the fuck you want,

1703
00:36:36.060 --> 00:36:37.379
and then you have another director,

1704
00:36:37.409 --> 00:36:38.219
and he's like,

1705
00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:38.699
OK,

1706
00:36:38.810 --> 00:36:40.209
we should pull things back.

1707
00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:41.620
What even I,

1708
00:36:41.709 --> 00:36:43.280
so what even is all that?

1709
00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:43.879
Yeah,

1710
00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:44.610
um,

1711
00:36:44.739 --> 00:36:44.889
it,

1712
00:36:44.979 --> 00:36:46.239
it's a great question,

1713
00:36:46.419 --> 00:36:47.060
um,

1714
00:36:47.139 --> 00:36:47.729
and

1715
00:36:48.379 --> 00:36:48.409
It's,

1716
00:36:49.500 --> 00:36:50.330
there's a lot of

1717
00:36:50.979 --> 00:36:52.020
There's a lot of elements in there,

1718
00:36:52.100 --> 00:36:52.270
right?

1719
00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:54.000
There's what's happening in the outside world,

1720
00:36:54.020 --> 00:36:55.370
which kind of drives

1721
00:36:55.659 --> 00:36:57.879
what the agency is gonna be tasked with doing,

1722
00:36:58.020 --> 00:36:58.179
right?

1723
00:36:58.290 --> 00:36:58.729
So that's,

1724
00:36:58.939 --> 00:37:00.679
that's separate and distinct from,

1725
00:37:01.300 --> 00:37:01.489
you know,

1726
00:37:01.540 --> 00:37:01.780
the,

1727
00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:02.169
the,

1728
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:03.570
the risk appetite or the,

1729
00:37:03.620 --> 00:37:05.899
or the thought process of a director,

1730
00:37:06.010 --> 00:37:06.149
right?

1731
00:37:06.189 --> 00:37:06.610
It's

1732
00:37:06.860 --> 00:37:10.179
what's happening in the world in the moment that the agency has to respond to.

1733
00:37:10.300 --> 00:37:11.169
So that's something that's,

1734
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:12.639
that's a little bit separate from

1735
00:37:12.969 --> 00:37:14.219
uh what you're asking,

1736
00:37:14.300 --> 00:37:15.800
but it plays into all of this.

1737
00:37:16.209 --> 00:37:16.649
Um,

1738
00:37:16.830 --> 00:37:17.439
and then

1739
00:37:17.699 --> 00:37:19.000
there's sort of the

1740
00:37:20.350 --> 00:37:22.949
The moment in time that the director comes into office,

1741
00:37:23.149 --> 00:37:23.350
right?

1742
00:37:23.429 --> 00:37:24.129
In other words,

1743
00:37:25.330 --> 00:37:25.679
You know,

1744
00:37:25.780 --> 00:37:27.449
is it right after the church,

1745
00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:28.090
you know,

1746
00:37:28.770 --> 00:37:31.129
committee hearings and the agency gets their ass

1747
00:37:31.129 --> 00:37:32.969
kicked and almost gets shut down or is it

1748
00:37:33.209 --> 00:37:34.010
after the,

1749
00:37:34.530 --> 00:37:34.719
you know,

1750
00:37:34.810 --> 00:37:35.790
interrogation

1751
00:37:36.449 --> 00:37:37.850
situation with GWAT and then,

1752
00:37:38.090 --> 00:37:38.250
you know,

1753
00:37:38.370 --> 00:37:39.750
the agency's gotten its ass kicked.

1754
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:40.229
And so,

1755
00:37:40.409 --> 00:37:40.570
you know,

1756
00:37:40.649 --> 00:37:44.090
you develop kind of this risk aversion for a period of time.

1757
00:37:44.370 --> 00:37:44.530
And,

1758
00:37:44.610 --> 00:37:45.070
and

1759
00:37:45.689 --> 00:37:45.959
so that,

1760
00:37:46.010 --> 00:37:46.219
that,

1761
00:37:46.330 --> 00:37:47.270
that can impact

1762
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:49.570
how a particular director behaves.

1763
00:37:49.600 --> 00:37:50.129
And then there's,

1764
00:37:50.330 --> 00:37:51.370
then there's the personality,

1765
00:37:51.489 --> 00:37:51.629
you know,

1766
00:37:51.689 --> 00:37:52.899
a guy like Bill Casey.

1767
00:37:53.379 --> 00:37:53.919
Uh,

1768
00:37:53.939 --> 00:37:55.239
back in the day with Reagan,

1769
00:37:55.939 --> 00:37:58.120
came out of World War II and OSS.

1770
00:37:58.620 --> 00:38:01.899
He had a certain mindset about what the agency should be doing,

1771
00:38:02.020 --> 00:38:02.159
right?

1772
00:38:02.219 --> 00:38:02.500
And,

1773
00:38:02.739 --> 00:38:03.580
and its place in,

1774
00:38:03.669 --> 00:38:04.280
in the

1775
00:38:05.120 --> 00:38:06.340
In the whole process.

1776
00:38:06.669 --> 00:38:07.260
Um,

1777
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.620
and then you'll get others who

1778
00:38:09.919 --> 00:38:10.699
come in and,

1779
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:11.300
you know,

1780
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:13.239
they view their job as

1781
00:38:13.560 --> 00:38:17.439
sort of providing top cover for the agency as the contact with the president.

1782
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:19.870
That's changed because of the DNI now,

1783
00:38:20.080 --> 00:38:20.199
right?

1784
00:38:20.399 --> 00:38:20.899
So,

1785
00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:21.790
now that

1786
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:24.260
the director has sort of stepped back

1787
00:38:24.679 --> 00:38:25.310
and

1788
00:38:25.860 --> 00:38:26.649
You've got the,

1789
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:26.889
the,

1790
00:38:26.939 --> 00:38:27.100
the,

1791
00:38:27.219 --> 00:38:30.090
the whoever is the DNI kind of sitting over the top of it.

1792
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:30.540
So,

1793
00:38:30.550 --> 00:38:31.199
you could argue,

1794
00:38:32.020 --> 00:38:34.560
you don't get the director doesn't get the face time

1795
00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:35.709
that they used to get

1796
00:38:36.060 --> 00:38:37.219
uh in the Oval Office,

1797
00:38:37.379 --> 00:38:39.120
which I think is a real shame because

1798
00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:41.159
the a president should know exactly

1799
00:38:41.300 --> 00:38:42.000
what their,

1800
00:38:42.459 --> 00:38:42.580
you know,

1801
00:38:42.689 --> 00:38:45.020
their intel organizations are capable of doing,

1802
00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:46.320
what they are doing.

1803
00:38:46.729 --> 00:38:47.419
Uh,

1804
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:48.340
how they could

1805
00:38:49.550 --> 00:38:50.979
support concerns and objectives,

1806
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.800
and sometimes that gets lost in the wash because

1807
00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:56.479
you created this layer of bureaucracy with the DNI.

1808
00:38:57.540 --> 00:38:57.550
Uh,

1809
00:38:58.780 --> 00:38:59.300
when did,

1810
00:38:59.699 --> 00:39:00.340
when did that happen,

1811
00:39:00.419 --> 00:39:00.850
the DNI,

1812
00:39:01.739 --> 00:39:02.020
um,

1813
00:39:02.179 --> 00:39:04.510
being placed over or like about,

1814
00:39:04.939 --> 00:39:05.060
sorry,

1815
00:39:05.139 --> 00:39:05.209
yeah,

1816
00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:05.530
it was,

1817
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.909
it was the reshuffling of after 9/11,

1818
00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:09.739
and there were some real problems.

1819
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:12.639
They identified obviously that things had been siloed and

1820
00:39:12.899 --> 00:39:14.540
so the bureau wasn't talking to the agency.

1821
00:39:14.570 --> 00:39:15.939
The agency wasn't talking to the bureau.

1822
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:16.850
Uh,

1823
00:39:17.060 --> 00:39:18.719
dots weren't being connected,

1824
00:39:19.020 --> 00:39:19.580
um,

1825
00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:21.280
and so it was an effort,

1826
00:39:21.379 --> 00:39:23.679
a good faith effort to try to figure out how do you.

1827
00:39:24.659 --> 00:39:24.860
You know,

1828
00:39:24.939 --> 00:39:25.979
how do you streamline this?

1829
00:39:26.050 --> 00:39:27.860
How do you make the whole process more efficient?

1830
00:39:27.899 --> 00:39:27.979
Well,

1831
00:39:28.020 --> 00:39:28.580
I'll tell you,

1832
00:39:29.139 --> 00:39:30.060
from my perspective anyway,

1833
00:39:30.139 --> 00:39:31.120
you don't do it by

1834
00:39:31.379 --> 00:39:32.540
creating more bureaucracy.

1835
00:39:32.699 --> 00:39:35.330
Let's just add another layer of managers.

1836
00:39:36.080 --> 00:39:36.209
I have that's a good idea.

1837
00:39:37.580 --> 00:39:38.439
Let's just

1838
00:39:38.899 --> 00:39:41.520
create an entire organization of red tape

1839
00:39:41.780 --> 00:39:43.459
and just put it on top of everyone.

1840
00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:44.209
That's,

1841
00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:45.600
I didn't a lot better.

1842
00:39:45.820 --> 00:39:46.209
And,

1843
00:39:46.219 --> 00:39:46.580
um,

1844
00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:47.139
so that's,

1845
00:39:47.250 --> 00:39:48.659
that's when that happened and,

1846
00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:49.300
and,

1847
00:39:49.699 --> 00:39:50.010
but it's,

1848
00:39:50.060 --> 00:39:51.280
it's a great question about

1849
00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:53.580
the impact that a director can have,

1850
00:39:53.739 --> 00:39:54.340
um.

1851
00:39:55.080 --> 00:39:56.310
On the organization.

1852
00:39:56.560 --> 00:39:56.719
You know,

1853
00:39:56.800 --> 00:39:57.159
we've had,

1854
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:57.360
we,

1855
00:39:57.479 --> 00:39:57.550
we,

1856
00:39:57.639 --> 00:39:58.239
we've had some,

1857
00:39:58.439 --> 00:39:58.790
you know,

1858
00:39:59.040 --> 00:39:59.590
great directors.

1859
00:39:59.629 --> 00:40:01.000
We've had some that were less than.

1860
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:01.739
So,

1861
00:40:02.090 --> 00:40:02.800
um,

1862
00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:03.669
you know,

1863
00:40:03.820 --> 00:40:04.540
uh,

1864
00:40:05.040 --> 00:40:05.159
again,

1865
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:08.139
Casey because of his life experience was amazing.

1866
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:08.679
Uh,

1867
00:40:09.409 --> 00:40:10.290
George Tenet,

1868
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:11.399
you know,

1869
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:13.500
a terrific individual,

1870
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:14.270
uh,

1871
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.300
much loved by the operations group,

1872
00:40:16.590 --> 00:40:17.149
uh,

1873
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:18.149
very supportive,

1874
00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:18.820
great,

1875
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:19.439
you know,

1876
00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:20.679
ability to

1877
00:40:21.750 --> 00:40:23.709
To work with the administration,

1878
00:40:23.949 --> 00:40:24.110
right?

1879
00:40:24.189 --> 00:40:25.330
Which is always important.

1880
00:40:25.389 --> 00:40:26.149
Um,

1881
00:40:26.389 --> 00:40:27.070
and then,

1882
00:40:27.389 --> 00:40:27.550
you know,

1883
00:40:27.629 --> 00:40:28.100
other folks,

1884
00:40:28.179 --> 00:40:28.860
Leon Panetta,

1885
00:40:28.909 --> 00:40:29.270
I tell you,

1886
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:30.139
Leon Panetta was,

1887
00:40:30.189 --> 00:40:30.729
was a,

1888
00:40:31.030 --> 00:40:31.889
he was excellent,

1889
00:40:32.310 --> 00:40:33.000
um,

1890
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:34.290
at the agency.

1891
00:40:34.590 --> 00:40:35.709
And so we've had,

1892
00:40:35.790 --> 00:40:36.449
we've had some

1893
00:40:36.629 --> 00:40:37.830
really standout ones.

1894
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:39.250
But

1895
00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:40.770
You know,

1896
00:40:40.889 --> 00:40:41.050
the,

1897
00:40:41.129 --> 00:40:41.669
the,

1898
00:40:41.889 --> 00:40:42.810
the job of the agency,

1899
00:40:42.850 --> 00:40:42.979
it's,

1900
00:40:43.050 --> 00:40:43.929
it always sounds.

1901
00:40:45.419 --> 00:40:45.739
You know,

1902
00:40:45.860 --> 00:40:45.870
I,

1903
00:40:45.979 --> 00:40:46.820
when I say this.

1904
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:50.699
People kind of roll their eyes or some folks roll their eyes because of,

1905
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:51.659
you know,

1906
00:40:51.919 --> 00:40:53.939
what was in the headlines over the past few years,

1907
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:55.419
particularly with the Trump administration.

1908
00:40:55.600 --> 00:40:58.949
But the agency is an apolitical organization,

1909
00:40:59.199 --> 00:40:59.560
right?

1910
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:00.159
Um,

1911
00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:01.989
Let me put it this way,

1912
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.500
the agency should always be an apolitical organization.

1913
00:41:06.689 --> 00:41:06.870
Yeah,

1914
00:41:06.919 --> 00:41:08.860
there are occasions when you'll get a director,

1915
00:41:09.389 --> 00:41:10.000
um,

1916
00:41:10.010 --> 00:41:10.379
who

1917
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:11.840
may be,

1918
00:41:11.959 --> 00:41:12.199
I think,

1919
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:13.090
too close

1920
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:14.399
to the administration.

1921
00:41:15.250 --> 00:41:16.030
And,

1922
00:41:16.310 --> 00:41:16.560
you know,

1923
00:41:16.659 --> 00:41:17.600
you don't want that.

1924
00:41:17.780 --> 00:41:21.419
You want them to be liaising with the administration closely,

1925
00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:23.639
but you don't want them to be enamored

1926
00:41:24.060 --> 00:41:24.629
of

1927
00:41:24.739 --> 00:41:25.959
being in the Oval Office.

1928
00:41:26.179 --> 00:41:26.639
So,

1929
00:41:27.419 --> 00:41:28.340
I think we've had that problem,

1930
00:41:28.419 --> 00:41:29.000
but I think

1931
00:41:29.750 --> 00:41:29.949
You know,

1932
00:41:29.989 --> 00:41:30.149
it,

1933
00:41:30.229 --> 00:41:31.030
it is,

1934
00:41:31.590 --> 00:41:32.270
for the most part,

1935
00:41:32.350 --> 00:41:34.020
I never sat in a safe house waiting for

1936
00:41:34.020 --> 00:41:36.790
something to happen where we had political discussions,

1937
00:41:37.270 --> 00:41:37.709
you know,

1938
00:41:38.229 --> 00:41:38.629
fuck that,

1939
00:41:38.709 --> 00:41:39.659
that wasn't gonna happen.

1940
00:41:39.949 --> 00:41:40.149
Yeah,

1941
00:41:40.270 --> 00:41:40.810
we just didn't,

1942
00:41:40.949 --> 00:41:41.110
you know,

1943
00:41:41.229 --> 00:41:41.989
you didn't care.

1944
00:41:42.149 --> 00:41:42.270
You know,

1945
00:41:42.340 --> 00:41:42.669
if you were,

1946
00:41:42.709 --> 00:41:43.729
if you were doing the job,

1947
00:41:43.870 --> 00:41:45.389
it just didn't didn't seem to matter.

1948
00:41:45.909 --> 00:41:47.600
It's one of the great things about national security,

1949
00:41:47.629 --> 00:41:51.290
I feel and covering national security is one of like the most bipartisan

1950
00:41:51.750 --> 00:41:53.909
issues really is like the safety of America,

1951
00:41:54.229 --> 00:41:54.389
you know,

1952
00:41:55.030 --> 00:41:57.169
both sides should really care about that.

1953
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:01.209
So when you hear that there's like a task force being set up

1954
00:42:01.469 --> 00:42:02.270
in Cuba,

1955
00:42:02.469 --> 00:42:04.570
and you worked in operations,

1956
00:42:04.830 --> 00:42:05.550
um,

1957
00:42:06.149 --> 00:42:06.810
so

1958
00:42:07.189 --> 00:42:11.090
what does that suggest about what they're doing possibly

1959
00:42:11.229 --> 00:42:13.370
in Cuba or what they might be looking at doing?

1960
00:42:13.989 --> 00:42:14.000
Uh,

1961
00:42:14.030 --> 00:42:15.270
they're up to all kinds of shit.

1962
00:42:15.879 --> 00:42:16.620
Um,

1963
00:42:17.040 --> 00:42:17.080
no,

1964
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:17.679
I'm kidding.

1965
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:18.070
OK,

1966
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:19.800
I knew it.

1967
00:42:19.919 --> 00:42:20.459
People are gonna say,

1968
00:42:21.270 --> 00:42:21.719
uh,

1969
00:42:22.040 --> 00:42:22.520
well,

1970
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:23.070
well,

1971
00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:23.280
look,

1972
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:23.560
the,

1973
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:23.840
you know,

1974
00:42:23.919 --> 00:42:24.840
the bottom line is,

1975
00:42:24.959 --> 00:42:25.159
you know,

1976
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:25.439
the,

1977
00:42:25.600 --> 00:42:27.949
the agency is an information collection operation,

1978
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:28.169
right?

1979
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.820
You're collecting intelligence to inform.

1980
00:42:31.689 --> 00:42:33.330
Whatever administration's in charge,

1981
00:42:33.409 --> 00:42:35.110
so that they theoretically make

1982
00:42:35.810 --> 00:42:39.520
smart strategic decisions related to US national security.

1983
00:42:40.489 --> 00:42:41.699
And so,

1984
00:42:42.120 --> 00:42:43.209
anything that the agency does,

1985
00:42:43.310 --> 00:42:45.669
you have to assume for the most part is

1986
00:42:45.929 --> 00:42:46.290
A,

1987
00:42:46.449 --> 00:42:48.169
to collect better intelligence.

1988
00:42:48.629 --> 00:42:49.469
And what does that mean?

1989
00:42:49.510 --> 00:42:50.389
That means you've got,

1990
00:42:50.510 --> 00:42:50.860
you know,

1991
00:42:51.389 --> 00:42:54.260
you've got technical collection obviously and SIGI and

1992
00:42:54.260 --> 00:42:55.620
none of this is sources and methods,

1993
00:42:55.669 --> 00:42:56.050
but it's,

1994
00:42:56.340 --> 00:42:56.469
you know,

1995
00:42:56.520 --> 00:42:56.699
it's,

1996
00:42:56.750 --> 00:42:57.419
it's all the,

1997
00:42:57.510 --> 00:42:58.050
the

1998
00:42:58.270 --> 00:42:59.209
satellite imagery,

1999
00:42:59.270 --> 00:43:00.790
it's the communications intercepts,

2000
00:43:00.830 --> 00:43:01.189
it's all,

2001
00:43:01.389 --> 00:43:01.949
all of that.

2002
00:43:02.030 --> 00:43:02.629
And then,

2003
00:43:02.949 --> 00:43:03.219
you know,

2004
00:43:03.590 --> 00:43:04.530
then you've got the human,

2005
00:43:04.830 --> 00:43:05.909
which is critical,

2006
00:43:06.030 --> 00:43:06.260
right?

2007
00:43:06.429 --> 00:43:06.709
You,

2008
00:43:06.790 --> 00:43:09.290
you can collect all the data you want and you can

2009
00:43:09.469 --> 00:43:10.250
pick up all the

2010
00:43:10.429 --> 00:43:12.550
comms you want and satellite imagery,

2011
00:43:12.610 --> 00:43:12.929
but

2012
00:43:13.389 --> 00:43:13.669
You know,

2013
00:43:13.790 --> 00:43:14.679
ultimately,

2014
00:43:14.729 --> 00:43:15.979
what floats the boat is,

2015
00:43:16.030 --> 00:43:17.649
is if you've got a source,

2016
00:43:17.709 --> 00:43:18.610
a human source

2017
00:43:18.909 --> 00:43:20.790
who can tell you what the fuck's going on,

2018
00:43:21.169 --> 00:43:21.409
uh,

2019
00:43:21.469 --> 00:43:22.469
or how people

2020
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:26.979
were acting in a meeting or what they looked like when they said something or,

2021
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:27.629
you know,

2022
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:29.840
an argument that took place in the uh in the

2023
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:31.909
sidelines of a meeting or whatever it might be,

2024
00:43:32.080 --> 00:43:32.310
right?

2025
00:43:32.510 --> 00:43:33.520
Plans and intentions,

2026
00:43:33.590 --> 00:43:34.560
motivations,

2027
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:34.879
you know,

2028
00:43:34.989 --> 00:43:35.600
an agenda.

2029
00:43:35.709 --> 00:43:36.060
So,

2030
00:43:36.439 --> 00:43:37.679
that human intelligence is,

2031
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:38.620
is critical.

2032
00:43:39.120 --> 00:43:39.719
And

2033
00:43:40.520 --> 00:43:41.639
So you have to assume that's,

2034
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:41.879
you know,

2035
00:43:41.949 --> 00:43:44.500
anytime you set up a task force focused on a particular location,

2036
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:45.840
yeah,

2037
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:48.320
you gotta feed that task force with better intelligence.

2038
00:43:48.879 --> 00:43:49.459
And then,

2039
00:43:49.699 --> 00:43:50.070
you know,

2040
00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:51.879
you're looking at a variety of things,

2041
00:43:51.989 --> 00:43:52.120
right?

2042
00:43:52.189 --> 00:43:54.070
If you're looking at um

2043
00:43:55.479 --> 00:43:55.679
You know,

2044
00:43:56.060 --> 00:43:57.280
in Cuba is a good example,

2045
00:43:57.439 --> 00:43:58.209
perfect example.

2046
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.020
If you're looking at,

2047
00:43:59.159 --> 00:43:59.550
you know,

2048
00:43:59.919 --> 00:44:01.989
we want this government to change course.

2049
00:44:02.399 --> 00:44:03.310
What does that mean?

2050
00:44:03.479 --> 00:44:05.100
Are they gonna do it voluntarily through,

2051
00:44:05.239 --> 00:44:05.479
you know,

2052
00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:07.080
some sort of peaceful transition?

2053
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.659
Are we gonna have to be aggressive in trying to get somebody

2054
00:44:11.120 --> 00:44:12.580
to agree to do that?

2055
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:13.340
Um,

2056
00:44:13.520 --> 00:44:13.669
you know,

2057
00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:14.939
is there somebody willing

2058
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:16.100
to work with

2059
00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:17.270
the

2060
00:44:17.909 --> 00:44:18.639
US and doing,

2061
00:44:19.040 --> 00:44:19.770
so there's,

2062
00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:21.149
there's that element of it.

2063
00:44:21.159 --> 00:44:21.360
And,

2064
00:44:21.439 --> 00:44:22.290
and so there's this

2065
00:44:23.330 --> 00:44:23.679
You know,

2066
00:44:23.939 --> 00:44:24.909
what are we doing?

2067
00:44:25.010 --> 00:44:26.590
And it's all fed by

2068
00:44:26.850 --> 00:44:27.629
what's our,

2069
00:44:28.010 --> 00:44:30.530
what's our tasking that's coming from the White House,

2070
00:44:30.610 --> 00:44:30.850
right?

2071
00:44:31.169 --> 00:44:32.050
That's all the agency does.

2072
00:44:32.129 --> 00:44:35.459
The agency doesn't sit around and come up with its own plans and its own tasking,

2073
00:44:35.889 --> 00:44:36.090
right?

2074
00:44:36.169 --> 00:44:36.530
That's not,

2075
00:44:36.649 --> 00:44:37.889
that's not their job.

2076
00:44:37.969 --> 00:44:38.909
Their job is to

2077
00:44:39.129 --> 00:44:41.149
get a priority list of tasking from

2078
00:44:41.489 --> 00:44:42.949
the NSC or the White House,

2079
00:44:43.250 --> 00:44:43.530
and say,

2080
00:44:43.570 --> 00:44:43.989
OK,

2081
00:44:44.139 --> 00:44:44.870
this is what,

2082
00:44:45.409 --> 00:44:45.570
you know,

2083
00:44:45.649 --> 00:44:46.850
we're being told to focus on.

2084
00:44:46.899 --> 00:44:48.290
This is what we're being told to do.

2085
00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:49.919
And then,

2086
00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:50.459
you know,

2087
00:44:50.540 --> 00:44:51.320
you go out and do it.

2088
00:44:53.040 --> 00:44:53.360
Yeah,

2089
00:44:53.439 --> 00:44:53.629
I,

2090
00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:54.040
uh,

2091
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:54.399
I,

2092
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:54.729
yeah,

2093
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:55.239
I can,

2094
00:44:55.479 --> 00:44:57.750
I can't believe they didn't ask me to be the director,

2095
00:44:57.919 --> 00:44:58.040
right?

2096
00:44:58.159 --> 00:44:58.360
I can,

2097
00:44:58.479 --> 00:44:58.639
you know,

2098
00:44:58.760 --> 00:44:59.219
I just,

2099
00:44:59.600 --> 00:45:00.280
it's just,

2100
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:01.860
just seems so simple.

2101
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:03.199
They,

2102
00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:03.479
I,

2103
00:45:03.600 --> 00:45:04.000
I,

2104
00:45:04.120 --> 00:45:06.179
I wouldn't be surprised if in the next

2105
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:07.669
month or two,

2106
00:45:07.959 --> 00:45:09.580
it gets on people's radar.

2107
00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:10.629
Um,

2108
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:11.479
I don't know if it,

2109
00:45:11.560 --> 00:45:12.300
if those were

2110
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:14.510
purposeful leaks,

2111
00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:17.100
cause I have to assume sometimes the agency

2112
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:21.310
leaks information that maybe they want adversaries to know,

2113
00:45:21.479 --> 00:45:21.739
hey,

2114
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:22.419
we're,

2115
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:23.030
we're,

2116
00:45:23.040 --> 00:45:23.239
uh,

2117
00:45:23.350 --> 00:45:24.500
we're focusing on you,

2118
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:25.939
or if it was just,

2119
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:26.510
uh,

2120
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:27.939
which would almost be,

2121
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:29.639
I guess not treasonous isn't the word,

2122
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:29.909
but,

2123
00:45:29.919 --> 00:45:30.360
uh.

2124
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.540
Like if you're leaking information about we have a task force

2125
00:45:33.860 --> 00:45:34.360
in

2126
00:45:35.020 --> 00:45:35.290
Uh,

2127
00:45:35.459 --> 00:45:36.020
Cuba,

2128
00:45:36.260 --> 00:45:36.979
and

2129
00:45:37.379 --> 00:45:41.560
it was not like a planted story or this was not something that the agency wanted

2130
00:45:42.500 --> 00:45:43.080
information out there

2131
00:45:43.620 --> 00:45:43.780
that,

2132
00:45:43.899 --> 00:45:44.479
that,

2133
00:45:44.979 --> 00:45:45.959
that's pretty messed up.

2134
00:45:46.419 --> 00:45:46.979
That's pretty messed,

2135
00:45:47.050 --> 00:45:47.580
but you also,

2136
00:45:47.739 --> 00:45:47.860
you know,

2137
00:45:47.939 --> 00:45:48.100
the,

2138
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:48.399
the,

2139
00:45:48.459 --> 00:45:51.169
the problem is a lot of times people will see something like that and they'll go,

2140
00:45:51.219 --> 00:45:51.820
oh my God,

2141
00:45:51.899 --> 00:45:52.969
why is the agency doing this?

2142
00:45:53.020 --> 00:45:53.300
Well,

2143
00:45:53.580 --> 00:45:53.739
look,

2144
00:45:53.780 --> 00:45:54.159
it

2145
00:45:54.639 --> 00:45:54.709
Yeah,

2146
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:55.399
the agency,

2147
00:45:55.610 --> 00:45:55.719
the,

2148
00:45:56.659 --> 00:45:57.310
the organization,

2149
00:45:57.399 --> 00:45:57.709
first of all,

2150
00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:57.959
again,

2151
00:45:58.040 --> 00:45:59.600
going back to how it functions.

2152
00:45:59.669 --> 00:46:00.110
What's that,

2153
00:46:00.340 --> 00:46:01.560
what's that line look like?

2154
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:01.840
Well,

2155
00:46:01.919 --> 00:46:05.620
the line is up here in NSC White House tasking down here,

2156
00:46:05.689 --> 00:46:08.070
it's intel community and the agency is part of that,

2157
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:08.669
right?

2158
00:46:08.959 --> 00:46:09.479
And then,

2159
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:11.280
but once they collect intelligence,

2160
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:13.879
it's not like it just sits in a skiff somewhere in the agency.

2161
00:46:13.949 --> 00:46:14.919
They got to disseminate it,

2162
00:46:15.040 --> 00:46:15.389
right?

2163
00:46:15.560 --> 00:46:17.179
They got feed it back up the line

2164
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:19.510
to the people that have requested it,

2165
00:46:19.580 --> 00:46:21.320
who have prioritized to this tasking.

2166
00:46:21.929 --> 00:46:23.110
And

2167
00:46:23.479 --> 00:46:24.520
that shit gets out,

2168
00:46:24.689 --> 00:46:24.969
right?

2169
00:46:25.090 --> 00:46:25.290
And,

2170
00:46:25.389 --> 00:46:26.129
and so,

2171
00:46:26.449 --> 00:46:27.330
it's just like the,

2172
00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:28.129
it's just like the,

2173
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:28.379
the,

2174
00:46:28.489 --> 00:46:28.600
the,

2175
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:29.439
the way that

2176
00:46:29.689 --> 00:46:30.870
raw intelligence

2177
00:46:31.030 --> 00:46:32.350
can get morphed into

2178
00:46:32.610 --> 00:46:33.429
bullshit

2179
00:46:33.850 --> 00:46:34.830
because it gets in the

2180
00:46:34.969 --> 00:46:35.850
editing process.

2181
00:46:35.889 --> 00:46:36.919
The washing machine of,

2182
00:46:36.989 --> 00:46:37.389
of,

2183
00:46:37.540 --> 00:46:38.600
of analysts and,

2184
00:46:38.689 --> 00:46:40.709
and folks outside of the agency

2185
00:46:40.850 --> 00:46:41.540
who Also

2186
00:46:42.020 --> 00:46:44.000
playing into it because they're from other

2187
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:45.860
organizations and they're feeding bits and pieces and

2188
00:46:46.120 --> 00:46:47.959
then you've got somebody up there and maybe

2189
00:46:47.959 --> 00:46:49.840
the NSC who's massaging it all and saying,

2190
00:46:49.919 --> 00:46:50.040
well,

2191
00:46:50.110 --> 00:46:53.520
let's focus on this paragraph or this bullet point,

2192
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:53.840
right?

2193
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:55.239
That's an editorial process.

2194
00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:55.560
That's a,

2195
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:56.479
that's opinion,

2196
00:46:56.679 --> 00:46:56.830
you know,

2197
00:46:56.879 --> 00:46:57.790
at the end of the day,

2198
00:46:57.919 --> 00:46:58.199
right?

2199
00:46:58.439 --> 00:47:00.459
Raw intelligence was sitting down here,

2200
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:01.239
you know,

2201
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:05.080
just what you picked up off the street or from a source or from an intercept.

2202
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:06.979
So you got all that

2203
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:07.939
and

2204
00:47:08.449 --> 00:47:08.689
You know,

2205
00:47:08.810 --> 00:47:09.270
then,

2206
00:47:09.649 --> 00:47:10.090
uh,

2207
00:47:10.100 --> 00:47:10.149
uh,

2208
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:11.209
once that hits that.

2209
00:47:12.060 --> 00:47:13.080
Sort of community

2210
00:47:13.689 --> 00:47:14.030
Then

2211
00:47:14.370 --> 00:47:16.120
who knows what their agendas may be,

2212
00:47:16.290 --> 00:47:18.810
and you may get people that are more politicized

2213
00:47:19.129 --> 00:47:19.469
who

2214
00:47:19.929 --> 00:47:20.129
think,

2215
00:47:20.169 --> 00:47:20.449
OK,

2216
00:47:20.570 --> 00:47:20.790
let's,

2217
00:47:20.860 --> 00:47:22.889
let's put this out there for their own reasons,

2218
00:47:22.929 --> 00:47:25.149
or it might be somebody over at state that says,

2219
00:47:25.479 --> 00:47:25.810
OK,

2220
00:47:25.850 --> 00:47:27.510
I see where they're going with this.

2221
00:47:27.689 --> 00:47:29.060
Now let's throw this out there.

2222
00:47:29.169 --> 00:47:29.469
So,

2223
00:47:29.969 --> 00:47:31.010
I'm just saying that it,

2224
00:47:31.090 --> 00:47:31.370
it's,

2225
00:47:31.449 --> 00:47:32.870
it's not as simple as saying,

2226
00:47:33.169 --> 00:47:33.209
well,

2227
00:47:33.270 --> 00:47:35.209
that's a piece of intelligence about the agency is doing.

2228
00:47:35.330 --> 00:47:36.330
Now it's out in the open.

2229
00:47:36.610 --> 00:47:37.889
Must have been a leak from the agency.

2230
00:47:37.969 --> 00:47:40.399
I'm saying it could have been a leak from a variety of locations.

2231
00:47:41.969 --> 00:47:42.949
It could be from others.

2232
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:44.360
A lot of times I just,

2233
00:47:44.459 --> 00:47:45.540
I just assume

2234
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:47.959
that like when the Washington Post says,

2235
00:47:48.560 --> 00:47:48.719
you know,

2236
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:50.760
they spoke to a US official or someone in the,

2237
00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:51.850
in the intelligence community,

2238
00:47:51.919 --> 00:47:52.669
I've just assume like,

2239
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:53.300
oh this is

2240
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:56.459
the agency wants this information out for some reason

2241
00:47:56.459 --> 00:47:58.820
that they have this task force for whatever reason,

2242
00:47:58.919 --> 00:47:59.159
uh,

2243
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:01.919
to politically pressure Cuba or what have you,

2244
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:02.340
but

2245
00:48:02.600 --> 00:48:03.199
I hadn't thought of that,

2246
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:06.620
that maybe it reaches that is a decision that would be taken by.

2247
00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:08.060
You know,

2248
00:48:08.229 --> 00:48:09.770
somebody higher up the food chain

2249
00:48:09.989 --> 00:48:10.850
than the agency,

2250
00:48:10.949 --> 00:48:11.189
right?

2251
00:48:11.270 --> 00:48:11.429
The,

2252
00:48:11.510 --> 00:48:11.739
the,

2253
00:48:11.830 --> 00:48:13.030
even the director's not gonna say,

2254
00:48:13.070 --> 00:48:14.459
we're gonna leak this information.

2255
00:48:14.870 --> 00:48:15.199
They're gonna have to,

2256
00:48:15.350 --> 00:48:16.709
they're gonna have to get that run past,

2257
00:48:16.820 --> 00:48:17.209
you know,

2258
00:48:17.590 --> 00:48:18.169
people

2259
00:48:18.810 --> 00:48:19.169
who,

2260
00:48:19.429 --> 00:48:19.629
you know,

2261
00:48:19.669 --> 00:48:23.550
are either sitting in the Oval Office or sitting in NSC or whomever,

2262
00:48:23.669 --> 00:48:27.169
somebody's gonna make that decision because there's all sorts of potential

2263
00:48:27.550 --> 00:48:29.219
ramifications to doing that,

2264
00:48:29.310 --> 00:48:29.459
right?

2265
00:48:29.510 --> 00:48:30.979
That all those other elements,

2266
00:48:31.149 --> 00:48:32.149
State Department and,

2267
00:48:32.270 --> 00:48:34.459
and NSA and all these others that have to,

2268
00:48:34.830 --> 00:48:35.949
you have to be aware of.

2269
00:48:36.110 --> 00:48:36.590
So,

2270
00:48:37.560 --> 00:48:38.040
You know,

2271
00:48:38.139 --> 00:48:38.879
it's not,

2272
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:40.520
it's not as close held as,

2273
00:48:40.600 --> 00:48:40.840
as,

2274
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:41.159
you know,

2275
00:48:41.229 --> 00:48:42.959
I think people imagine it to be.

2276
00:48:44.050 --> 00:48:44.929
So it sounds like it,

2277
00:48:44.969 --> 00:48:47.469
it might be more likely that maybe it reached

2278
00:48:47.689 --> 00:48:49.199
some congressional aides

2279
00:48:49.570 --> 00:48:50.129
desk

2280
00:48:50.330 --> 00:48:51.510
or something like that.

2281
00:48:51.969 --> 00:48:52.209
Yeah,

2282
00:48:52.290 --> 00:48:54.090
I'm not saying that there's a lot of leaking that

2283
00:48:54.090 --> 00:48:56.870
goes on up with staffers up on Capitol Hill,

2284
00:48:57.330 --> 00:48:57.870
but

2285
00:48:58.770 --> 00:48:59.209
You know,

2286
00:48:59.320 --> 00:48:59.610
I'm,

2287
00:48:59.770 --> 00:48:59.850
oh,

2288
00:48:59.929 --> 00:49:01.169
I guess I am saying that.

2289
00:49:02.370 --> 00:49:02.669
Yeah,

2290
00:49:02.699 --> 00:49:02.709
yeah,

2291
00:49:02.810 --> 00:49:02.820
yeah,

2292
00:49:03.169 --> 00:49:03.770
uh,

2293
00:49:04.330 --> 00:49:04.570
so there,

2294
00:49:04.689 --> 00:49:04.939
there's a,

2295
00:49:05.080 --> 00:49:06.770
there's more things I want to,

2296
00:49:06.830 --> 00:49:07.199
uh,

2297
00:49:07.489 --> 00:49:08.250
to ask you about.

2298
00:49:08.330 --> 00:49:09.600
I still wanna ask you about,

2299
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:10.000
uh,

2300
00:49:10.010 --> 00:49:12.669
your thoughts on what's happening in the war in Ukraine in,

2301
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:13.669
in 2026,

2302
00:49:13.729 --> 00:49:14.479
uh,

2303
00:49:14.649 --> 00:49:15.100
what

2304
00:49:15.409 --> 00:49:19.860
your read on the threat or potential threat of China is because

2305
00:49:20.389 --> 00:49:20.659
I've,

2306
00:49:20.750 --> 00:49:23.229
I've noticed personally just from kind of covering these things,

2307
00:49:23.270 --> 00:49:27.939
it seems like people are turning a little bit more favorable towards

2308
00:49:29.110 --> 00:49:29.389
China,

2309
00:49:29.429 --> 00:49:30.449
which can

2310
00:49:30.750 --> 00:49:32.780
kind of downplay the threat possibly,

2311
00:49:32.850 --> 00:49:33.070
but I,

2312
00:49:33.149 --> 00:49:33.870
I wanted to get

2313
00:49:34.270 --> 00:49:36.860
thoughts on that and I also wanted to get your thoughts on um

2314
00:49:39.020 --> 00:49:40.489
What your read is on the,

2315
00:49:40.500 --> 00:49:42.370
the Pentagon's release of the,

2316
00:49:42.379 --> 00:49:46.110
the UAP files and potentially um

2317
00:49:47.100 --> 00:49:47.469
yeah.

2318
00:49:47.989 --> 00:49:48.389
Uh,

2319
00:49:48.629 --> 00:49:49.090
so,

2320
00:49:49.510 --> 00:49:49.909
let's,

2321
00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:50.469
what I was,

2322
00:49:50.510 --> 00:49:50.709
uh,

2323
00:49:50.790 --> 00:49:52.889
what we're getting back into is

2324
00:49:53.030 --> 00:49:57.449
UAPs which not necessarily and really not even in my opinion,

2325
00:49:57.540 --> 00:49:59.060
likely aliens,

2326
00:49:59.229 --> 00:50:00.610
but what we're talking about are

2327
00:50:00.949 --> 00:50:02.310
really a phenomena,

2328
00:50:02.429 --> 00:50:02.790
um,

2329
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:06.709
especially in the last like 20 years of unidentified objects

2330
00:50:06.709 --> 00:50:09.679
that have risen to the level of national security threat,

2331
00:50:09.989 --> 00:50:10.580
um,

2332
00:50:10.790 --> 00:50:11.439
and

2333
00:50:12.219 --> 00:50:13.919
I know the CIA has played

2334
00:50:14.179 --> 00:50:15.679
a role in

2335
00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:17.899
the UAP controversy in the past,

2336
00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:18.379
and I,

2337
00:50:18.459 --> 00:50:19.919
I'd like wanted to get

2338
00:50:20.100 --> 00:50:21.060
your thoughts,

2339
00:50:21.129 --> 00:50:21.379
uh,

2340
00:50:21.459 --> 00:50:22.199
your read

2341
00:50:22.449 --> 00:50:23.639
on the situation.

2342
00:50:24.020 --> 00:50:24.600
Yeah.

2343
00:50:25.100 --> 00:50:25.260
Yeah,

2344
00:50:25.409 --> 00:50:25.739
we got,

2345
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:26.879
we got in the game early,

2346
00:50:27.100 --> 00:50:27.489
uh,

2347
00:50:27.570 --> 00:50:31.639
and then got sort of painted with the UFO brush aliens because,

2348
00:50:31.820 --> 00:50:32.010
uh,

2349
00:50:32.020 --> 00:50:32.090
the,

2350
00:50:32.139 --> 00:50:32.300
I mean,

2351
00:50:32.340 --> 00:50:33.159
the agency

2352
00:50:33.399 --> 00:50:34.840
was tasked with

2353
00:50:35.100 --> 00:50:37.139
finding and then setting up Area 51,

2354
00:50:37.300 --> 00:50:37.500
right?

2355
00:50:37.570 --> 00:50:37.840
And

2356
00:50:38.060 --> 00:50:40.469
the whole point of Area 51 was to find the

2357
00:50:41.189 --> 00:50:45.129
Remote discrete location to test new potential

2358
00:50:45.550 --> 00:50:46.709
aerial platforms,

2359
00:50:46.790 --> 00:50:47.110
right?

2360
00:50:47.350 --> 00:50:47.820
So,

2361
00:50:48.149 --> 00:50:48.459
cause again,

2362
00:50:48.510 --> 00:50:49.409
the agency had a

2363
00:50:49.909 --> 00:50:52.149
huge hand in the U2 program,

2364
00:50:52.310 --> 00:50:52.790
Blackbird,

2365
00:50:52.870 --> 00:50:52.979
all,

2366
00:50:53.070 --> 00:50:53.550
all the others.

2367
00:50:53.590 --> 00:50:54.209
And so,

2368
00:50:54.580 --> 00:50:55.100
uh,

2369
00:50:55.409 --> 00:50:58.489
so they actually set up every 5th 1 and so by definition,

2370
00:50:58.949 --> 00:50:59.229
then,

2371
00:50:59.379 --> 00:50:59.550
you know,

2372
00:50:59.709 --> 00:51:00.340
suddenly the,

2373
00:51:00.469 --> 00:51:02.649
the agency is responsible for UFOs,

2374
00:51:02.909 --> 00:51:03.469
um.

2375
00:51:04.300 --> 00:51:04.500
Yeah,

2376
00:51:04.580 --> 00:51:05.179
it's interesting.

2377
00:51:05.260 --> 00:51:05.379
I,

2378
00:51:05.459 --> 00:51:07.330
and I think the way you framed it is,

2379
00:51:07.379 --> 00:51:08.290
is absolutely right.

2380
00:51:08.379 --> 00:51:08.540
You,

2381
00:51:08.659 --> 00:51:09.090
you

2382
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:12.179
It makes perfect sense if you think that the Pentagon

2383
00:51:12.560 --> 00:51:13.860
and others are looking at.

2384
00:51:14.750 --> 00:51:15.709
Um,

2385
00:51:16.149 --> 00:51:16.909
instances,

2386
00:51:17.830 --> 00:51:18.139
objects,

2387
00:51:18.149 --> 00:51:18.469
or,

2388
00:51:18.590 --> 00:51:19.159
you know,

2389
00:51:20.070 --> 00:51:20.659
things that

2390
00:51:21.469 --> 00:51:23.139
Don't have an immediate explanation,

2391
00:51:23.429 --> 00:51:23.600
right?

2392
00:51:23.719 --> 00:51:24.129
So.

2393
00:51:24.449 --> 00:51:24.649
You know,

2394
00:51:24.729 --> 00:51:25.169
the Pentagon,

2395
00:51:25.330 --> 00:51:28.149
everybody got wigged out when they found out the Pentagon had set up an office,

2396
00:51:28.310 --> 00:51:28.530
uh,

2397
00:51:28.649 --> 00:51:29.159
whatever it was,

2398
00:51:29.169 --> 00:51:29.620
ATIP,

2399
00:51:29.959 --> 00:51:31.270
an Advanced Aeronautic

2400
00:51:31.570 --> 00:51:33.189
Threat Identification Program.

2401
00:51:33.649 --> 00:51:33.719
Well,

2402
00:51:33.770 --> 00:51:35.820
that makes perfect sense from a national security perspective.

2403
00:51:35.879 --> 00:51:36.489
If you've got a,

2404
00:51:36.570 --> 00:51:36.770
you know,

2405
00:51:36.929 --> 00:51:37.100
a,

2406
00:51:37.429 --> 00:51:37.889
uh,

2407
00:51:38.090 --> 00:51:38.290
you know,

2408
00:51:38.409 --> 00:51:39.060
a fighter

2409
00:51:39.330 --> 00:51:41.209
up in the air somewhere and they spot something and

2410
00:51:41.209 --> 00:51:43.550
they can't identify what it is or it seems unusual,

2411
00:51:43.610 --> 00:51:44.270
it's moving,

2412
00:51:44.929 --> 00:51:45.169
you know,

2413
00:51:45.370 --> 00:51:45.639
fine,

2414
00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:47.239
you should encourage them,

2415
00:51:47.250 --> 00:51:48.530
and that didn't happen for a long time.

2416
00:51:48.610 --> 00:51:49.770
You should encourage them to,

2417
00:51:50.050 --> 00:51:50.169
to,

2418
00:51:50.330 --> 00:51:50.489
you know,

2419
00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:51.669
file that report.

2420
00:51:52.030 --> 00:51:52.419
You know,

2421
00:51:52.709 --> 00:51:53.469
get them debriefed,

2422
00:51:53.590 --> 00:51:54.550
figure out what was it?

2423
00:51:54.590 --> 00:51:55.219
Was it some,

2424
00:51:55.370 --> 00:51:55.510
you know,

2425
00:51:55.669 --> 00:51:57.689
some new propulsion system being tested by

2426
00:51:58.070 --> 00:51:58.909
some adversary,

2427
00:51:59.270 --> 00:51:59.429
right?

2428
00:51:59.590 --> 00:52:00.810
Figure out what these things are.

2429
00:52:01.070 --> 00:52:01.750
For a long time,

2430
00:52:01.830 --> 00:52:02.469
that wasn't the case.

2431
00:52:02.570 --> 00:52:03.449
There was no upside

2432
00:52:03.830 --> 00:52:05.350
to some pilot landing and saying,

2433
00:52:05.429 --> 00:52:05.590
you know,

2434
00:52:05.669 --> 00:52:06.409
I saw,

2435
00:52:06.629 --> 00:52:08.290
I saw an unidentified

2436
00:52:08.669 --> 00:52:10.050
flying object up there,

2437
00:52:10.310 --> 00:52:10.689
you know,

2438
00:52:10.790 --> 00:52:11.689
and so,

2439
00:52:11.830 --> 00:52:13.149
it didn't happen for a long time.

2440
00:52:13.270 --> 00:52:13.750
So I think it would,

2441
00:52:13.810 --> 00:52:15.090
it made sense and then,

2442
00:52:15.459 --> 00:52:15.590
you know,

2443
00:52:15.629 --> 00:52:18.929
I think that where the government's dropped the ball is just not being more

2444
00:52:19.629 --> 00:52:20.229
transparent.

2445
00:52:20.780 --> 00:52:20.979
You know,

2446
00:52:21.060 --> 00:52:21.770
in the whole thing,

2447
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:23.209
because without that,

2448
00:52:23.459 --> 00:52:24.280
you just get

2449
00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:26.280
conspiracy theories all day long.

2450
00:52:27.479 --> 00:52:30.500
Something I wanted to ask you about along the lines of

2451
00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:34.080
UAPs and the CIA and uh

2452
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:35.120
maybe just the,

2453
00:52:35.239 --> 00:52:36.260
cause I know you can't

2454
00:52:36.399 --> 00:52:36.979
um

2455
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:39.080
former CIA officers can't.

2456
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:41.540
divulge information,

2457
00:52:41.719 --> 00:52:45.959
but maybe you could speak about the concept of disinformation

2458
00:52:46.120 --> 00:52:48.939
and whether it's a useful tool and if it's used,

2459
00:52:49.600 --> 00:52:49.919
you know,

2460
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:50.469
um,

2461
00:52:50.560 --> 00:52:53.409
I guess my pet theory is that maybe it's a,

2462
00:52:53.600 --> 00:52:54.100
uh,

2463
00:52:54.120 --> 00:52:54.479
advanced,

2464
00:52:54.560 --> 00:52:55.540
these are advanced

2465
00:52:55.850 --> 00:52:56.340
US.

2466
00:52:57.459 --> 00:52:58.280
Um,

2467
00:52:58.649 --> 00:52:59.379
skunkworks,

2468
00:52:59.500 --> 00:53:00.570
Lockheed Martin,

2469
00:53:00.580 --> 00:53:01.159
aircraft,

2470
00:53:01.370 --> 00:53:02.040
drones

2471
00:53:02.739 --> 00:53:04.919
that we're seeing possibly that are being seen,

2472
00:53:05.379 --> 00:53:05.939
um,

2473
00:53:06.300 --> 00:53:06.739
does the,

2474
00:53:06.899 --> 00:53:08.679
does the CIA engage in

2475
00:53:08.899 --> 00:53:09.800
disseminating

2476
00:53:10.459 --> 00:53:11.419
false information,

2477
00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:13.879
potentially planting stories,

2478
00:53:14.139 --> 00:53:14.300
saying,

2479
00:53:14.379 --> 00:53:14.540
hey,

2480
00:53:14.620 --> 00:53:15.120
there's,

2481
00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:15.620
what,

2482
00:53:15.739 --> 00:53:18.850
what are these alien possible alien crafts doing out there,

2483
00:53:18.860 --> 00:53:19.020
and,

2484
00:53:19.129 --> 00:53:21.330
and really it's like maybe a cover for um.

2485
00:53:22.179 --> 00:53:23.250
Advanced technology.

2486
00:53:23.699 --> 00:53:23.780
Well,

2487
00:53:23.879 --> 00:53:24.139
I'm sure,

2488
00:53:24.260 --> 00:53:24.379
look,

2489
00:53:24.419 --> 00:53:24.590
I,

2490
00:53:25.010 --> 00:53:26.000
there's no doubt that,

2491
00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:26.580
you know,

2492
00:53:26.739 --> 00:53:27.479
some of the early

2493
00:53:28.620 --> 00:53:30.919
bizarre sightings or reports of

2494
00:53:31.060 --> 00:53:32.679
potential UFOs or whatever were

2495
00:53:33.419 --> 00:53:34.050
locals,

2496
00:53:34.219 --> 00:53:34.379
you know,

2497
00:53:34.620 --> 00:53:35.479
spotting a

2498
00:53:35.739 --> 00:53:36.000
new

2499
00:53:36.820 --> 00:53:38.979
aerial asset or deve under development,

2500
00:53:39.260 --> 00:53:41.179
flying out of Area 51 as an example,

2501
00:53:41.290 --> 00:53:41.469
right?

2502
00:53:41.580 --> 00:53:41.860
So,

2503
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:42.540
sure,

2504
00:53:42.620 --> 00:53:42.860
I mean,

2505
00:53:42.899 --> 00:53:43.310
there is,

2506
00:53:43.620 --> 00:53:43.780
there,

2507
00:53:43.899 --> 00:53:46.120
there's that component to the whole thing.

2508
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:47.060
Um.

2509
00:53:48.459 --> 00:53:49.159
Is it

2510
00:53:49.629 --> 00:53:50.770
true that China,

2511
00:53:50.939 --> 00:53:51.560
Russia,

2512
00:53:51.860 --> 00:53:52.340
others would,

2513
00:53:52.419 --> 00:53:53.530
would love to know,

2514
00:53:53.979 --> 00:53:54.179
you know,

2515
00:53:54.260 --> 00:53:55.889
what our developments are?

2516
00:53:56.300 --> 00:53:56.620
I mean,

2517
00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:57.399
of course,

2518
00:53:57.620 --> 00:53:57.820
right?

2519
00:53:57.939 --> 00:53:58.310
They,

2520
00:53:58.699 --> 00:53:59.600
we lost that

2521
00:54:00.100 --> 00:54:03.189
platform in Abbottabad in the bin Laden

2522
00:54:03.649 --> 00:54:04.760
pickup and

2523
00:54:05.489 --> 00:54:06.010
You know,

2524
00:54:07.010 --> 00:54:10.919
Chinese engineers at the invitation of Pakistan were crawling all over that,

2525
00:54:11.409 --> 00:54:11.989
um.

2526
00:54:13.270 --> 00:54:14.139
Two days later,

2527
00:54:15.080 --> 00:54:15.600
because there's,

2528
00:54:15.709 --> 00:54:15.840
you know,

2529
00:54:15.949 --> 00:54:16.080
they're,

2530
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:17.850
they're trying to gather intelligence on

2531
00:54:18.659 --> 00:54:19.489
On the

2532
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:21.110
Materials and,

2533
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:21.639
and,

2534
00:54:21.919 --> 00:54:22.120
you know,

2535
00:54:22.439 --> 00:54:23.040
design and,

2536
00:54:23.120 --> 00:54:24.939
and stealth capabilities and

2537
00:54:25.439 --> 00:54:26.620
anything else they could get their hands on.

2538
00:54:26.699 --> 00:54:27.260
So there's,

2539
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:27.919
you know,

2540
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.100
there's a massive effort on the part of adversaries to understand

2541
00:54:31.439 --> 00:54:31.560
and,

2542
00:54:31.600 --> 00:54:33.189
and also for the US,

2543
00:54:33.320 --> 00:54:34.780
US needs to do the same thing

2544
00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:36.239
related to what China's up to.

2545
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:36.739
So,

2546
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:37.489
you know,

2547
00:54:37.600 --> 00:54:37.800
if,

2548
00:54:37.879 --> 00:54:41.320
if there's concern over the development of some new material science that,

2549
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:43.580
that's allowing for

2550
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:46.560
whatever in terms of uh hypersonics,

2551
00:54:46.879 --> 00:54:47.330
then

2552
00:54:48.030 --> 00:54:48.510
You know,

2553
00:54:48.949 --> 00:54:49.189
believe me,

2554
00:54:49.229 --> 00:54:50.489
it's an aggressive world out there.

2555
00:54:50.750 --> 00:54:51.189
So then,

2556
00:54:51.350 --> 00:54:52.229
getting to your question,

2557
00:54:52.370 --> 00:54:52.550
you know,

2558
00:54:52.669 --> 00:54:55.290
would there be an element of disinformation perhaps?

2559
00:54:55.790 --> 00:54:56.629
I would imagine so,

2560
00:54:56.739 --> 00:54:57.189
don't know,

2561
00:54:57.270 --> 00:54:57.649
but

2562
00:54:57.969 --> 00:54:59.310
um if I was running,

2563
00:54:59.510 --> 00:54:59.669
you know,

2564
00:54:59.830 --> 00:55:00.030
things,

2565
00:55:00.080 --> 00:55:00.610
I would

2566
00:55:00.909 --> 00:55:02.639
certainly keep that in the uh in,

2567
00:55:02.709 --> 00:55:03.709
in the toolkit

2568
00:55:04.030 --> 00:55:05.310
as a potential if,

2569
00:55:05.389 --> 00:55:06.350
if you needed it

2570
00:55:06.629 --> 00:55:07.219
to

2571
00:55:07.550 --> 00:55:08.270
um

2572
00:55:08.669 --> 00:55:09.050
create

2573
00:55:09.750 --> 00:55:11.889
a diversion for adversaries.

2574
00:55:12.310 --> 00:55:12.909
Um.

2575
00:55:13.600 --> 00:55:13.919
Yeah,

2576
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:14.120
I,

2577
00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:14.479
I don't,

2578
00:55:14.600 --> 00:55:14.760
I,

2579
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:15.360
I wouldn't see,

2580
00:55:15.479 --> 00:55:17.879
I wouldn't have any operational concerns over that

2581
00:55:18.209 --> 00:55:19.919
if it was a national security issue.

2582
00:55:21.540 --> 00:55:21.899
Yeah,

2583
00:55:21.979 --> 00:55:22.659
it does.

2584
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:23.959
It seems like

2585
00:55:24.620 --> 00:55:26.719
the worst case scenario is that it's

2586
00:55:26.899 --> 00:55:29.120
some kind of Russian or Chinese

2587
00:55:30.219 --> 00:55:30.439
technology

2588
00:55:31.100 --> 00:55:31.939
that um

2589
00:55:32.060 --> 00:55:36.860
that people are observing or that troops and soldiers in these bases and pilots,

2590
00:55:36.939 --> 00:55:38.000
many pilots,

2591
00:55:38.409 --> 00:55:39.000
um,

2592
00:55:39.010 --> 00:55:39.879
keep reporting

2593
00:55:40.219 --> 00:55:41.840
that that seems like it'd be the worst

2594
00:55:42.219 --> 00:55:42.699
case scenario.

2595
00:55:44.129 --> 00:55:44.290
Well,

2596
00:55:44.449 --> 00:55:44.610
sure,

2597
00:55:44.729 --> 00:55:44.850
yeah,

2598
00:55:44.959 --> 00:55:45.429
if,

2599
00:55:45.479 --> 00:55:45.689
if,

2600
00:55:46.030 --> 00:55:46.199
you know,

2601
00:55:46.370 --> 00:55:46.479
if,

2602
00:55:46.570 --> 00:55:46.810
if,

2603
00:55:46.850 --> 00:55:47.830
um,

2604
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:48.050
China,

2605
00:55:48.090 --> 00:55:48.550
for instance,

2606
00:55:48.770 --> 00:55:48.929
you know,

2607
00:55:49.050 --> 00:55:49.209
they,

2608
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:52.909
they spend a lot of their time reverse engineering our gear and our technology,

2609
00:55:52.929 --> 00:55:53.580
and,

2610
00:55:53.989 --> 00:55:54.780
um,

2611
00:55:54.850 --> 00:55:55.270
but

2612
00:55:55.449 --> 00:55:58.489
if they suddenly developed a new means of propulsion,

2613
00:55:59.010 --> 00:55:59.909
um,

2614
00:56:00.409 --> 00:56:00.530
yeah,

2615
00:56:00.649 --> 00:56:01.580
that's a real concern,

2616
00:56:01.729 --> 00:56:02.320
obviously,

2617
00:56:02.530 --> 00:56:02.909
for,

2618
00:56:03.419 --> 00:56:04.280
um,

2619
00:56:04.649 --> 00:56:04.810
you know,

2620
00:56:04.929 --> 00:56:05.010
look,

2621
00:56:05.090 --> 00:56:05.239
I,

2622
00:56:05.300 --> 00:56:05.689
you know,

2623
00:56:05.889 --> 00:56:08.010
hypersonics are kind of the next big thing,

2624
00:56:08.090 --> 00:56:08.250
right,

2625
00:56:08.290 --> 00:56:08.989
in terms of

2626
00:56:09.250 --> 00:56:11.489
where money is going and the honest to God,

2627
00:56:11.649 --> 00:56:11.770
you know,

2628
00:56:11.929 --> 00:56:12.699
the truth is that

2629
00:56:13.189 --> 00:56:13.199
US

2630
00:56:14.469 --> 00:56:15.810
defense systems

2631
00:56:16.189 --> 00:56:16.810
don't

2632
00:56:17.110 --> 00:56:18.449
really work against,

2633
00:56:18.909 --> 00:56:19.610
you know,

2634
00:56:19.909 --> 00:56:20.520
uh,

2635
00:56:20.550 --> 00:56:21.850
high-level hypersonic

2636
00:56:22.030 --> 00:56:22.389
weapons.

2637
00:56:22.550 --> 00:56:22.989
So,

2638
00:56:23.429 --> 00:56:23.510
you know,

2639
00:56:23.750 --> 00:56:25.570
everything we designed in terms of,

2640
00:56:25.949 --> 00:56:26.110
you know,

2641
00:56:26.229 --> 00:56:28.209
an umbrella we're based on

2642
00:56:28.659 --> 00:56:28.949
sort of the,

2643
00:56:29.040 --> 00:56:30.850
the old ballistic missile concept,

2644
00:56:30.909 --> 00:56:31.110
and,

2645
00:56:31.189 --> 00:56:31.659
and

2646
00:56:31.969 --> 00:56:32.649
Um,

2647
00:56:32.729 --> 00:56:33.169
and,

2648
00:56:33.370 --> 00:56:33.520
you know,

2649
00:56:33.570 --> 00:56:34.550
the ICBM,

2650
00:56:34.770 --> 00:56:34.889
so,

2651
00:56:35.020 --> 00:56:35.169
you know,

2652
00:56:35.330 --> 00:56:35.689
they're OK,

2653
00:56:35.770 --> 00:56:36.280
they go up,

2654
00:56:36.449 --> 00:56:37.030
they come down,

2655
00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:38.330
you can predict the trajectory,

2656
00:56:38.489 --> 00:56:38.689
right?

2657
00:56:38.739 --> 00:56:39.320
And so you,

2658
00:56:39.570 --> 00:56:41.169
you set up your defenses that way,

2659
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:42.209
hypersonics,

2660
00:56:42.370 --> 00:56:42.489
you know,

2661
00:56:42.600 --> 00:56:43.260
glide weapons,

2662
00:56:43.330 --> 00:56:43.800
you got,

2663
00:56:44.250 --> 00:56:45.489
you got speed and movement,

2664
00:56:45.610 --> 00:56:45.889
right?

2665
00:56:46.090 --> 00:56:46.790
And

2666
00:56:47.530 --> 00:56:48.129
so

2667
00:56:48.370 --> 00:56:48.570
there,

2668
00:56:48.729 --> 00:56:49.250
that's,

2669
00:56:49.370 --> 00:56:51.760
there's a big scramble going on right now

2670
00:56:52.030 --> 00:56:55.750
amongst nations that have the resources and the ability and the motivation

2671
00:56:56.090 --> 00:56:57.610
to develop those capabilities.

2672
00:56:58.780 --> 00:57:00.969
Something else I wanted to ask you about

2673
00:57:01.379 --> 00:57:03.270
along these lines is,

2674
00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:05.209
and I don't know if um

2675
00:57:05.510 --> 00:57:08.830
I know some private intelligence companies and agencies do this,

2676
00:57:09.189 --> 00:57:11.409
is um kind of like red cell.

2677
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:14.899
Operations where you do red cell penetration

2678
00:57:15.040 --> 00:57:15.429
tests,

2679
00:57:15.439 --> 00:57:15.919
for instance,

2680
00:57:15.959 --> 00:57:17.939
or maybe the government hires

2681
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:20.629
um you or an organization

2682
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:21.860
uh to

2683
00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:23.770
basically test

2684
00:57:24.120 --> 00:57:26.580
to stress test their defensive systems

2685
00:57:27.030 --> 00:57:28.090
and I guess there,

2686
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:30.459
there is the possibility that this is some kind of

2687
00:57:30.879 --> 00:57:32.080
red cell operation.

2688
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:35.340
I know some red cell operations that I don't know if they were CIA,

2689
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:36.040
um,

2690
00:57:36.149 --> 00:57:36.719
affiliated,

2691
00:57:36.830 --> 00:57:39.500
but they kind of went off the rails at one point where I think they.

2692
00:57:40.550 --> 00:57:41.159
Um,

2693
00:57:41.179 --> 00:57:42.909
kidnapped a base general

2694
00:57:43.260 --> 00:57:43.820
many years ago.

2695
00:57:43.899 --> 00:57:44.979
It might have been in the 70s.

2696
00:57:45.139 --> 00:57:45.379
That was,

2697
00:57:45.459 --> 00:57:45.590
uh,

2698
00:57:45.659 --> 00:57:47.179
that was Richard Marcinko,

2699
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:48.020
who,

2700
00:57:48.139 --> 00:57:48.600
uh,

2701
00:57:48.739 --> 00:57:49.500
in the old days,

2702
00:57:49.570 --> 00:57:49.770
uh,

2703
00:57:49.820 --> 00:57:50.760
it was sort of the

2704
00:57:51.060 --> 00:57:52.600
early SEALs days and,

2705
00:57:52.939 --> 00:57:53.379
and they,

2706
00:57:53.459 --> 00:57:53.669
they,

2707
00:57:53.780 --> 00:57:56.260
they set up a red cell operation and,

2708
00:57:56.580 --> 00:57:56.959
and

2709
00:57:57.080 --> 00:57:57.300
yeah,

2710
00:57:57.409 --> 00:57:57.699
it got,

2711
00:57:57.780 --> 00:57:58.179
it got,

2712
00:57:58.260 --> 00:57:58.479
it,

2713
00:57:58.540 --> 00:57:58.659
it.

2714
00:57:58.810 --> 00:58:00.989
The problem with it was it embarrassed

2715
00:58:01.219 --> 00:58:01.879
higher ups,

2716
00:58:01.929 --> 00:58:02.310
right,

2717
00:58:02.610 --> 00:58:02.989
because,

2718
00:58:03.370 --> 00:58:03.489
you know,

2719
00:58:03.570 --> 00:58:06.330
their security wasn't where it should be and

2720
00:58:06.770 --> 00:58:07.379
so

2721
00:58:07.649 --> 00:58:07.979
nobody,

2722
00:58:08.090 --> 00:58:08.479
you know,

2723
00:58:08.649 --> 00:58:08.919
no,

2724
00:58:09.649 --> 00:58:12.989
nobody with a lot of gold braid and stars wants to be embarrassed and so,

2725
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:13.959
um,

2726
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:14.290
you know,

2727
00:58:14.389 --> 00:58:15.790
ultimately they shut that down,

2728
00:58:16.489 --> 00:58:16.959
but

2729
00:58:18.219 --> 00:58:18.419
Yeah,

2730
00:58:18.540 --> 00:58:18.709
it's,

2731
00:58:18.739 --> 00:58:18.939
it's,

2732
00:58:18.979 --> 00:58:19.209
it's,

2733
00:58:19.260 --> 00:58:19.419
I mean,

2734
00:58:19.459 --> 00:58:20.199
it's a legitimate.

2735
00:58:20.939 --> 00:58:22.010
It's a legitimate effort.

2736
00:58:22.199 --> 00:58:22.209
I,

2737
00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:23.090
you see it a lot in,

2738
00:58:23.139 --> 00:58:25.199
in the world of cyber shenanigans.

2739
00:58:25.250 --> 00:58:25.639
Um,

2740
00:58:25.739 --> 00:58:26.300
that's where,

2741
00:58:26.379 --> 00:58:26.729
you know,

2742
00:58:27.020 --> 00:58:27.639
sort of that,

2743
00:58:28.340 --> 00:58:28.530
that,

2744
00:58:28.580 --> 00:58:31.360
that testing concept really plays out.

2745
00:58:31.870 --> 00:58:32.879
Um,

2746
00:58:33.379 --> 00:58:33.850
but

2747
00:58:34.179 --> 00:58:34.300
yeah,

2748
00:58:34.379 --> 00:58:34.620
I,

2749
00:58:34.729 --> 00:58:34.899
you know,

2750
00:58:34.979 --> 00:58:35.479
I think

2751
00:58:35.620 --> 00:58:35.739
I,

2752
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:36.500
I remember the,

2753
00:58:36.580 --> 00:58:37.239
the

2754
00:58:37.899 --> 00:58:39.520
incident you're talking about and

2755
00:58:40.060 --> 00:58:40.530
that was,

2756
00:58:40.540 --> 00:58:41.090
uh,

2757
00:58:41.100 --> 00:58:41.919
back in the day.

2758
00:58:43.600 --> 00:58:43.879
I,

2759
00:58:43.959 --> 00:58:45.899
I just sometimes wonder if maybe

2760
00:58:46.399 --> 00:58:47.139
some of these

2761
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:51.659
UFOs being cited over American bases and over European bases

2762
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:52.870
and NATO bases,

2763
00:58:52.879 --> 00:58:56.979
if it's possible that it's red cell penetration testing or

2764
00:58:57.479 --> 00:58:59.479
just putting the bases on alert to be on,

2765
00:58:59.590 --> 00:59:00.540
on the lookout

2766
00:59:01.040 --> 00:59:01.830
for this kind of thing.

2767
00:59:01.919 --> 00:59:02.239
Yeah,

2768
00:59:02.399 --> 00:59:02.679
yeah,

2769
00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:02.949
that,

2770
00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:03.149
that,

2771
00:59:03.199 --> 00:59:05.820
that sort of thing tends to be very tightly controlled,

2772
00:59:06.120 --> 00:59:06.979
so.

2773
00:59:07.449 --> 00:59:07.889
You know,

2774
00:59:08.010 --> 00:59:08.169
I,

2775
00:59:08.290 --> 00:59:08.330
I,

2776
00:59:08.449 --> 00:59:08.889
I know this is,

2777
00:59:09.149 --> 00:59:09.290
you know,

2778
00:59:09.370 --> 00:59:10.570
that's sort of the concept that says,

2779
00:59:10.610 --> 00:59:10.770
OK,

2780
00:59:10.879 --> 00:59:11.689
it's all a surprise,

2781
00:59:11.810 --> 00:59:12.770
nobody's read in on it,

2782
00:59:12.889 --> 00:59:13.290
one of the,

2783
00:59:13.729 --> 00:59:13.739
uh,

2784
00:59:14.610 --> 00:59:14.929
you know,

2785
00:59:15.090 --> 00:59:15.159
that,

2786
00:59:15.290 --> 00:59:15.709
that,

2787
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:18.770
that creates some opportunities for shit to go sideways pretty quick.

2788
00:59:18.879 --> 00:59:19.270
So,

2789
00:59:19.570 --> 00:59:20.250
um,

2790
00:59:20.610 --> 00:59:21.399
oftentimes it's,

2791
00:59:21.449 --> 00:59:25.110
it's a much more controlled environment when you're talking about

2792
00:59:25.419 --> 00:59:26.070
testing

2793
00:59:26.330 --> 00:59:26.790
for

2794
00:59:27.010 --> 00:59:28.629
any particular security purpose.

2795
00:59:29.340 --> 00:59:29.489
Uh,

2796
00:59:29.570 --> 00:59:31.629
because otherwise you get a real goat rope there,

2797
00:59:31.669 --> 00:59:32.389
but it's,

2798
00:59:32.469 --> 00:59:32.989
um,

2799
00:59:33.310 --> 00:59:33.949
it's certainly,

2800
00:59:34.129 --> 00:59:34.229
again,

2801
00:59:34.310 --> 00:59:34.510
it's,

2802
00:59:34.550 --> 00:59:35.870
it's in the kit bag,

2803
00:59:35.989 --> 00:59:36.159
right?

2804
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:36.469
It's,

2805
00:59:36.550 --> 00:59:38.389
it's another tool that you have to use.

2806
00:59:38.469 --> 00:59:40.409
You have to keep stressing your security

2807
00:59:40.610 --> 00:59:42.020
arrangements and plans and,

2808
00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:43.070
and protocols.

2809
00:59:43.110 --> 00:59:43.219
You,

2810
00:59:43.310 --> 00:59:44.310
you've always got,

2811
00:59:44.669 --> 00:59:46.030
you've always got to stress test them,

2812
00:59:46.110 --> 00:59:46.229
you know,

2813
00:59:46.330 --> 00:59:47.939
always have to assume that,

2814
00:59:48.270 --> 00:59:48.689
you know,

2815
00:59:48.810 --> 00:59:49.229
uh,

2816
00:59:49.429 --> 00:59:50.669
there's been some new development.

2817
00:59:50.750 --> 00:59:51.770
You always have to do

2818
00:59:51.909 --> 00:59:53.510
a new risk and threat assessment,

2819
00:59:53.629 --> 00:59:53.790
right?

2820
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:54.669
It's like uh

2821
00:59:55.399 --> 00:59:57.520
It's like a crisis communications plan,

2822
00:59:57.639 --> 00:59:57.879
you know,

2823
00:59:58.000 --> 00:59:58.149
you,

2824
00:59:58.239 --> 00:59:58.439
you,

2825
00:59:58.520 --> 00:59:59.500
you create it

2826
00:59:59.770 --> 01:00:01.030
and then you put it on the shelf,

2827
01:00:01.040 --> 01:00:02.639
and then next year it's useless,

2828
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:02.929
right?

2829
01:00:03.159 --> 01:00:03.780
Because,

2830
01:00:04.040 --> 01:00:04.399
you know,

2831
01:00:04.560 --> 01:00:06.189
it's been overtaken by events.

2832
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:06.620
So,

2833
01:00:06.959 --> 01:00:07.550
these sort of things,

2834
01:00:07.600 --> 01:00:09.830
it's it's like in a simple pedestrian way,

2835
01:00:09.870 --> 01:00:10.840
it's like due diligence.

2836
01:00:10.919 --> 01:00:12.199
You can do due diligence on somebody,

2837
01:00:12.270 --> 01:00:14.000
you can vet somebody for a position.

2838
01:00:14.699 --> 01:00:15.439
And then

2839
01:00:15.540 --> 01:00:15.719
think,

2840
01:00:15.750 --> 01:00:16.080
OK,

2841
01:00:16.179 --> 01:00:16.620
we did it,

2842
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:17.250
and then,

2843
01:00:17.379 --> 01:00:17.770
you know,

2844
01:00:17.919 --> 01:00:18.770
2 years later,

2845
01:00:18.989 --> 01:00:19.679
suddenly,

2846
01:00:20.090 --> 01:00:20.250
you know,

2847
01:00:20.330 --> 01:00:21.659
they've had a big life change.

2848
01:00:21.739 --> 01:00:22.139
They got,

2849
01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:23.419
they had a gambling problem.

2850
01:00:23.540 --> 01:00:23.939
Now they're,

2851
01:00:23.949 --> 01:00:24.280
uh,

2852
01:00:24.659 --> 01:00:24.850
you know,

2853
01:00:24.929 --> 01:00:25.459
a concern,

2854
01:00:25.570 --> 01:00:26.899
an insider threat concern,

2855
01:00:27.020 --> 01:00:27.199
right?

2856
01:00:27.300 --> 01:00:29.860
Maybe they're willing to sell proprietary data because

2857
01:00:30.209 --> 01:00:30.580
they're in,

2858
01:00:30.659 --> 01:00:31.850
they're in trouble.

2859
01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:35.860
So you have to keep doing due diligence is my point there in that rambling thing,

2860
01:00:35.899 --> 01:00:39.300
just like you have to continually update your risk and threat assessments.

2861
01:00:39.419 --> 01:00:40.090
Everything changes,

2862
01:00:40.169 --> 01:00:40.300
right?

2863
01:00:40.379 --> 01:00:41.379
Nothing stays the same.

2864
01:00:43.080 --> 01:00:43.429
Yeah,

2865
01:00:43.560 --> 01:00:44.030
it's,

2866
01:00:44.229 --> 01:00:48.379
it's interesting to see the level of disclosure and transparency

2867
01:00:48.750 --> 01:00:49.800
with some of these.

2868
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:51.659
These releases

2869
01:00:52.340 --> 01:00:53.500
that um

2870
01:00:54.459 --> 01:00:55.649
Over the last couple of decades,

2871
01:00:55.699 --> 01:00:56.360
it hasn't

2872
01:00:56.739 --> 01:00:57.860
been that transparent.

2873
01:01:00.590 --> 01:01:00.919
Yeah,

2874
01:01:01.179 --> 01:01:01.300
yeah,

2875
01:01:01.459 --> 01:01:01.540
look,

2876
01:01:01.620 --> 01:01:02.179
they

2877
01:01:03.179 --> 01:01:03.330
Yeah,

2878
01:01:03.379 --> 01:01:03.479
the,

2879
01:01:03.620 --> 01:01:04.239
the

2880
01:01:05.949 --> 01:01:07.510
The agency and the government,

2881
01:01:07.590 --> 01:01:08.270
intel community,

2882
01:01:08.350 --> 01:01:09.969
but the the government in general,

2883
01:01:10.030 --> 01:01:10.270
right?

2884
01:01:10.580 --> 01:01:13.090
So he's had a problem with overclassification and

2885
01:01:13.429 --> 01:01:17.429
lack of transparency and all of that always creates then

2886
01:01:18.149 --> 01:01:19.229
a variety of,

2887
01:01:19.310 --> 01:01:19.929
of

2888
01:01:20.110 --> 01:01:21.189
conspiracy theories,

2889
01:01:21.270 --> 01:01:21.500
right?

2890
01:01:21.620 --> 01:01:22.969
And some of them

2891
01:01:23.189 --> 01:01:24.669
just refuse to go away and,

2892
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:25.340
in part,

2893
01:01:25.350 --> 01:01:27.209
sometimes it's the government's fault because

2894
01:01:27.600 --> 01:01:27.709
again,

2895
01:01:27.750 --> 01:01:30.419
there is this tendency to want to overclassify everything.

2896
01:01:30.750 --> 01:01:31.409
It's just

2897
01:01:31.659 --> 01:01:31.850
You know,

2898
01:01:31.899 --> 01:01:32.090
it's,

2899
01:01:32.110 --> 01:01:33.699
it's easier for whomever is

2900
01:01:34.219 --> 01:01:34.760
doing it.

2901
01:01:34.860 --> 01:01:35.479
Um,

2902
01:01:35.659 --> 01:01:36.399
and so

2903
01:01:36.780 --> 01:01:37.020
that,

2904
01:01:37.120 --> 01:01:38.239
that's a real concern.

2905
01:01:38.389 --> 01:01:38.699
Uh,

2906
01:01:38.780 --> 01:01:40.320
when you talk about UAPs,

2907
01:01:40.739 --> 01:01:40.929
again,

2908
01:01:41.020 --> 01:01:41.560
I think

2909
01:01:41.899 --> 01:01:43.340
the government could have done themselves a

2910
01:01:43.340 --> 01:01:45.699
favor years ago by being more transparent.

2911
01:01:46.350 --> 01:01:46.810
Um,

2912
01:01:46.870 --> 01:01:51.750
I don't think we're hiding alien bodies or alien aircraft or spaceships,

2913
01:01:52.060 --> 01:01:52.830
rocket ships in,

2914
01:01:52.870 --> 01:01:54.229
in Area 51

2915
01:01:54.550 --> 01:01:55.070
or,

2916
01:01:55.270 --> 01:01:55.709
you know,

2917
01:01:55.949 --> 01:01:57.370
in any other facility.

2918
01:01:57.790 --> 01:01:58.449
So,

2919
01:01:58.830 --> 01:01:59.510
they,

2920
01:01:59.909 --> 01:02:00.060
you know,

2921
01:02:00.189 --> 01:02:01.550
to a degree they can't unless they,

2922
01:02:01.629 --> 01:02:05.850
unless they identify a national security concern over some new.

2923
01:02:07.219 --> 01:02:08.149
Development

2924
01:02:08.300 --> 01:02:11.929
created by our adversary and for some reason now they need to ensure that,

2925
01:02:11.959 --> 01:02:11.969
that,

2926
01:02:12.260 --> 01:02:12.459
you know,

2927
01:02:12.629 --> 01:02:13.780
that information doesn't get out.

2928
01:02:13.860 --> 01:02:14.560
We don't want

2929
01:02:14.939 --> 01:02:16.979
China to know that we know that they're doing something,

2930
01:02:17.100 --> 01:02:17.429
right?

2931
01:02:18.060 --> 01:02:18.239
OK,

2932
01:02:18.379 --> 01:02:18.739
fine.

2933
01:02:18.899 --> 01:02:19.399
Keep it a secret.

2934
01:02:19.489 --> 01:02:21.370
There are reasons to have sources and methods.

2935
01:02:21.419 --> 01:02:23.770
There are reasons for some secrets.

2936
01:02:24.100 --> 01:02:25.899
But I guess my point being is you,

2937
01:02:26.060 --> 01:02:27.620
you don't want to over egg the pudding there.

2938
01:02:28.800 --> 01:02:33.139
Something I wanted to ask you about is your thoughts on the ongoing.

2939
01:02:34.120 --> 01:02:35.709
Long ongoing now,

2940
01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:40.399
war in Ukraine and counterintelligence and uh specifically

2941
01:02:40.800 --> 01:02:42.979
a lot about what Russia's SVR

2942
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:44.560
is up to in Europe.

2943
01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:45.219
They're

2944
01:02:45.419 --> 01:02:50.820
now like just recently tried to bomb a Ukrainian plane uh in Germany with like a

2945
01:02:51.120 --> 01:02:52.520
uh bombs the wrong word.

2946
01:02:52.590 --> 01:02:54.300
They tried to use an explosive drone

2947
01:02:54.439 --> 01:02:55.100
against it.

2948
01:02:55.600 --> 01:02:56.159
Um,

2949
01:02:56.620 --> 01:02:59.340
I was curious what your thoughts on the intelligence,

2950
01:02:59.360 --> 01:02:59.870
uh,

2951
01:03:00.750 --> 01:03:00.989
situation in,

2952
01:03:01.070 --> 01:03:01.560
in Europe.

2953
01:03:02.959 --> 01:03:03.350
Yeah,

2954
01:03:03.479 --> 01:03:04.120
they've been doing,

2955
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:05.719
Russia's been engaged in a,

2956
01:03:05.879 --> 01:03:06.949
however you want to refer to it,

2957
01:03:07.040 --> 01:03:08.659
sort of a gray or hybrid

2958
01:03:09.040 --> 01:03:10.179
uh war

2959
01:03:10.479 --> 01:03:11.179
um

2960
01:03:12.000 --> 01:03:12.659
in Europe

2961
01:03:12.879 --> 01:03:13.419
for

2962
01:03:13.919 --> 01:03:16.850
some time now during the course of their invasion of Ukraine.

2963
01:03:17.340 --> 01:03:17.939
And,

2964
01:03:18.439 --> 01:03:18.679
you know,

2965
01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:21.979
they are always going for plausible deniability

2966
01:03:21.979 --> 01:03:24.250
just to kind of create this confusion,

2967
01:03:24.280 --> 01:03:24.840
um,

2968
01:03:25.050 --> 01:03:25.540
but,

2969
01:03:25.919 --> 01:03:26.620
you know,

2970
01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:28.199
particularly on the eastern front,

2971
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:28.800
Lithuania,

2972
01:03:28.879 --> 01:03:29.459
Estonia,

2973
01:03:29.919 --> 01:03:30.429
you know,

2974
01:03:30.719 --> 01:03:31.199
Latvia,

2975
01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:31.669
they

2976
01:03:32.500 --> 01:03:34.010
Poland is a good example.

2977
01:03:34.219 --> 01:03:36.340
Germany certainly has had their share of,

2978
01:03:36.399 --> 01:03:36.850
of,

2979
01:03:37.050 --> 01:03:37.260
you know,

2980
01:03:37.379 --> 01:03:38.159
incidents.

2981
01:03:38.459 --> 01:03:39.040
Um,

2982
01:03:39.419 --> 01:03:40.540
so whether you're talking about,

2983
01:03:40.699 --> 01:03:41.060
you know,

2984
01:03:41.159 --> 01:03:41.659
uh,

2985
01:03:42.399 --> 01:03:43.000
Arson,

2986
01:03:43.110 --> 01:03:44.389
sabotage,

2987
01:03:44.520 --> 01:03:44.909
uh,

2988
01:03:44.919 --> 01:03:46.360
explosive devices,

2989
01:03:46.590 --> 01:03:48.040
these drone hits that you're talking about,

2990
01:03:48.110 --> 01:03:50.659
drone incursions into NATO territory,

2991
01:03:51.040 --> 01:03:51.770
um,

2992
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:53.659
assassination attempts.

2993
01:03:55.449 --> 01:03:55.729
You know,

2994
01:03:55.850 --> 01:03:56.000
they,

2995
01:03:56.090 --> 01:03:56.370
they,

2996
01:03:56.530 --> 01:03:57.090
they've,

2997
01:03:57.770 --> 01:03:59.250
it looks like

2998
01:03:59.530 --> 01:04:01.649
Russian intel and obviously the Kremlin.

2999
01:04:01.889 --> 01:04:03.469
What they're trying to do is,

3000
01:04:04.050 --> 01:04:04.239
again,

3001
01:04:04.290 --> 01:04:04.530
they're,

3002
01:04:04.610 --> 01:04:05.120
they're

3003
01:04:05.649 --> 01:04:06.389
probing

3004
01:04:06.689 --> 01:04:07.510
at the

3005
01:04:08.110 --> 01:04:08.879
Alliance.

3006
01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:10.199
They're probing NATO.

3007
01:04:10.280 --> 01:04:12.860
They're looking for any indications of

3008
01:04:13.300 --> 01:04:14.679
fractures or splits.

3009
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:14.919
I mean,

3010
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:18.620
I think Putin at the outset of this invasion really assumed that NATO

3011
01:04:18.870 --> 01:04:22.699
would kind of fall apart as an alliance or certainly wouldn't hold together

3012
01:04:22.879 --> 01:04:24.000
in the way that it has.

3013
01:04:24.120 --> 01:04:24.580
So,

3014
01:04:25.080 --> 01:04:26.100
but they are.

3015
01:04:26.979 --> 01:04:27.139
You know,

3016
01:04:27.219 --> 01:04:28.729
there's some intelligence that,

3017
01:04:29.300 --> 01:04:29.459
you know,

3018
01:04:29.540 --> 01:04:30.649
indicates that there's,

3019
01:04:30.899 --> 01:04:33.479
there's a lot of concern inside of Europe right now that

3020
01:04:33.830 --> 01:04:34.399
perhaps

3021
01:04:34.739 --> 01:04:35.919
Russia is going to get,

3022
01:04:36.620 --> 01:04:37.959
particularly as Putin gets,

3023
01:04:38.300 --> 01:04:39.659
I don't wanna say backed into a corner,

3024
01:04:39.739 --> 01:04:40.719
but as he has

3025
01:04:41.300 --> 01:04:42.560
increasing trouble,

3026
01:04:42.929 --> 01:04:43.679
uh,

3027
01:04:44.060 --> 01:04:45.199
realizing his

3028
01:04:45.459 --> 01:04:46.879
objectives there with Ukraine,

3029
01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:48.840
that he might get a little more

3030
01:04:49.780 --> 01:04:51.110
desperate perhaps,

3031
01:04:51.419 --> 01:04:52.830
and so they may

3032
01:04:53.780 --> 01:04:55.679
be more aggressive in testing

3033
01:04:55.969 --> 01:04:56.760
NATO's

3034
01:04:57.179 --> 01:04:59.080
willingness to work together,

3035
01:04:59.219 --> 01:04:59.979
um,

3036
01:05:00.120 --> 01:05:01.080
or to respond,

3037
01:05:01.580 --> 01:05:03.199
or they may try to your point about

3038
01:05:03.199 --> 01:05:07.080
disinformation to create an environment and a situation

3039
01:05:07.580 --> 01:05:08.689
where it appears that,

3040
01:05:08.979 --> 01:05:09.679
um,

3041
01:05:10.139 --> 01:05:10.379
you know,

3042
01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:12.340
Ukraine is ultimately responsible.

3043
01:05:12.899 --> 01:05:13.620
And

3044
01:05:13.909 --> 01:05:17.199
that would again create this confusion and this

3045
01:05:17.350 --> 01:05:19.530
this interest that Putin's always got

3046
01:05:19.830 --> 01:05:20.370
in

3047
01:05:20.790 --> 01:05:23.870
degrading the cohesion of of NATO.

3048
01:05:26.149 --> 01:05:28.459
Something I'm curious about is

3049
01:05:29.419 --> 01:05:30.639
when you were in the agency,

3050
01:05:30.729 --> 01:05:32.419
was there a

3051
01:05:34.959 --> 01:05:38.179
Thought or way that people thought about

3052
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:39.199
Russian intelligence,

3053
01:05:39.280 --> 01:05:42.300
the SVR and uh KGB and

3054
01:05:42.679 --> 01:05:43.679
how they operate.

3055
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:48.639
I is it different than kind of how the CIA operates and how we operate?

3056
01:05:48.649 --> 01:05:49.479
And if so,

3057
01:05:49.639 --> 01:05:50.080
how?

3058
01:05:51.580 --> 01:05:52.020
Yeah,

3059
01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:52.850
um.

3060
01:05:54.810 --> 01:05:55.530
They don't,

3061
01:05:55.770 --> 01:05:57.750
they don't have the same risk versus gain,

3062
01:05:58.169 --> 01:05:59.090
um,

3063
01:05:59.810 --> 01:06:01.320
calculations that the,

3064
01:06:01.330 --> 01:06:01.909
uh,

3065
01:06:01.919 --> 01:06:02.860
the US does

3066
01:06:03.169 --> 01:06:04.510
from an intel perspective.

3067
01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:05.290
Um,

3068
01:06:05.610 --> 01:06:07.610
they are willing to take more risks.

3069
01:06:07.729 --> 01:06:07.840
Look,

3070
01:06:07.929 --> 01:06:08.290
they,

3071
01:06:08.489 --> 01:06:08.969
you know,

3072
01:06:09.169 --> 01:06:10.669
they certainly haven't had a problem,

3073
01:06:11.050 --> 01:06:11.290
you know,

3074
01:06:11.409 --> 01:06:12.790
going out and assassinating

3075
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:14.550
uh opposition figures,

3076
01:06:14.879 --> 01:06:15.489
uh,

3077
01:06:15.689 --> 01:06:15.889
you know,

3078
01:06:16.010 --> 01:06:18.350
whether you're talking about Litvinenko or Scripple or

3079
01:06:18.530 --> 01:06:19.790
variety of others.

3080
01:06:20.120 --> 01:06:20.729
Um,

3081
01:06:20.969 --> 01:06:21.550
and

3082
01:06:22.110 --> 01:06:22.790
They,

3083
01:06:23.070 --> 01:06:24.750
they also in their operations,

3084
01:06:24.830 --> 01:06:25.949
they tend to do more of a,

3085
01:06:26.120 --> 01:06:26.570
of a

3086
01:06:26.870 --> 01:06:27.510
shotgun approach.

3087
01:06:27.659 --> 01:06:30.370
They'll just throw a lot of shit at the wall and see what sticks.

3088
01:06:30.790 --> 01:06:31.810
And the,

3089
01:06:32.270 --> 01:06:32.389
you know,

3090
01:06:32.629 --> 01:06:33.949
US intel agency is,

3091
01:06:34.030 --> 01:06:35.570
is tends to be more

3092
01:06:36.110 --> 01:06:36.669
methodical,

3093
01:06:36.750 --> 01:06:37.870
more surgical,

3094
01:06:38.139 --> 01:06:38.310
right?

3095
01:06:38.389 --> 01:06:39.510
We're not gonna just do that,

3096
01:06:39.580 --> 01:06:40.070
we're gonna

3097
01:06:40.310 --> 01:06:40.419
say,

3098
01:06:40.429 --> 01:06:40.629
OK,

3099
01:06:40.750 --> 01:06:41.889
this is the operation,

3100
01:06:41.949 --> 01:06:43.530
this is what we're going to do,

3101
01:06:44.110 --> 01:06:44.270
you know,

3102
01:06:44.389 --> 01:06:46.820
and then you put China out there and China tends to be,

3103
01:06:47.060 --> 01:06:47.310
you know,

3104
01:06:47.550 --> 01:06:48.050
different

3105
01:06:48.189 --> 01:06:49.290
in the sense of it's

3106
01:06:49.889 --> 01:06:50.850
It's vision,

3107
01:06:50.959 --> 01:06:51.090
right?

3108
01:06:51.169 --> 01:06:54.050
So they have a very much a long-term view,

3109
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:54.469
right?

3110
01:06:54.889 --> 01:06:55.330
So,

3111
01:06:55.649 --> 01:06:56.270
the US

3112
01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:57.469
intel

3113
01:06:57.929 --> 01:07:00.810
problem sometimes is that we work in very short cycles,

3114
01:07:00.889 --> 01:07:01.120
right?

3115
01:07:01.429 --> 01:07:02.639
A lot of times it's just the,

3116
01:07:02.850 --> 01:07:05.989
the length of deployment for a particular officer in a particular location,

3117
01:07:06.610 --> 01:07:06.770
right?

3118
01:07:06.850 --> 01:07:07.290
And

3119
01:07:07.649 --> 01:07:07.889
you know,

3120
01:07:08.050 --> 01:07:08.530
so,

3121
01:07:08.969 --> 01:07:09.129
you know,

3122
01:07:09.209 --> 01:07:12.260
our attitude can be very short-sighted in terms of

3123
01:07:13.020 --> 01:07:16.340
The development of a source or the development of an operation,

3124
01:07:16.459 --> 01:07:16.590
right?

3125
01:07:16.659 --> 01:07:18.010
We want those results

3126
01:07:18.540 --> 01:07:19.260
much quicker.

3127
01:07:19.739 --> 01:07:20.959
And China,

3128
01:07:21.219 --> 01:07:25.169
their intel apparatus is willing to put 30 or 40 years into an

3129
01:07:25.169 --> 01:07:27.340
operation if they feel like it's gonna pay off down the road.

3130
01:07:28.080 --> 01:07:28.780
And

3131
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:29.719
so,

3132
01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:30.000
you know,

3133
01:07:30.080 --> 01:07:31.939
they'll drop a student here in the US,

3134
01:07:32.560 --> 01:07:32.679
you know,

3135
01:07:32.800 --> 01:07:34.320
just go to grad undergrad school,

3136
01:07:34.399 --> 01:07:35.110
get good grades,

3137
01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:36.350
get into good grad school,

3138
01:07:36.439 --> 01:07:37.040
get good grades,

3139
01:07:37.110 --> 01:07:38.360
that's all they're being told to do,

3140
01:07:38.479 --> 01:07:38.840
right?

3141
01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:40.560
And then get a job,

3142
01:07:40.860 --> 01:07:41.229
you know,

3143
01:07:41.399 --> 01:07:41.949
somewhere,

3144
01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:43.189
and then do well there,

3145
01:07:43.199 --> 01:07:44.229
and then get a better job,

3146
01:07:44.399 --> 01:07:44.520
you know,

3147
01:07:44.600 --> 01:07:45.479
with more access,

3148
01:07:45.639 --> 01:07:45.909
more,

3149
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:46.360
you know,

3150
01:07:46.600 --> 01:07:47.739
potential interest to us.

3151
01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:48.600
So they'll,

3152
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:50.719
they'll put years and years and years and years into a,

3153
01:07:50.760 --> 01:07:51.840
into an operation.

3154
01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:53.100
So it's kind of

3155
01:07:53.659 --> 01:07:54.040
You know,

3156
01:07:54.300 --> 01:07:54.810
it's not a,

3157
01:07:54.860 --> 01:07:55.879
it's a little bit

3158
01:07:56.659 --> 01:07:57.500
simplifying it,

3159
01:07:57.580 --> 01:07:57.939
but

3160
01:07:58.179 --> 01:07:59.479
those are some interesting

3161
01:08:00.020 --> 01:08:02.260
distinctions between the intel services.

3162
01:08:02.949 --> 01:08:04.600
I think this is a great time to,

3163
01:08:04.810 --> 01:08:05.189
to

3164
01:08:05.409 --> 01:08:07.709
move to the last topic of China.

3165
01:08:07.850 --> 01:08:08.090
Actually,

3166
01:08:08.149 --> 01:08:08.969
it'd be great to,

3167
01:08:09.209 --> 01:08:10.870
to switch gears to China and

3168
01:08:11.209 --> 01:08:11.870
um

3169
01:08:12.909 --> 01:08:12.919
The,

3170
01:08:13.989 --> 01:08:14.550
for many years,

3171
01:08:14.739 --> 01:08:15.969
China was looked at

3172
01:08:16.390 --> 01:08:18.899
like uh it's main adversary or rival,

3173
01:08:18.910 --> 01:08:20.089
and for a while there,

3174
01:08:21.029 --> 01:08:21.589
American public,

3175
01:08:21.669 --> 01:08:22.169
I think,

3176
01:08:22.270 --> 01:08:23.569
really saw them as a threat.

3177
01:08:23.950 --> 01:08:24.580
Um,

3178
01:08:24.870 --> 01:08:25.649
potentially now,

3179
01:08:26.350 --> 01:08:26.970
China's

3180
01:08:27.350 --> 01:08:28.609
being seen less so.

3181
01:08:28.669 --> 01:08:29.689
I was wondering what,

3182
01:08:29.830 --> 01:08:33.089
what are your thoughts on China and the intelligence,

3183
01:08:33.189 --> 01:08:33.970
um,

3184
01:08:34.229 --> 01:08:34.810
situation there?

3185
01:08:35.109 --> 01:08:35.450
Yeah.

3186
01:08:36.198 --> 01:08:36.587
Well,

3187
01:08:36.758 --> 01:08:36.917
I,

3188
01:08:36.999 --> 01:08:37.028
I,

3189
01:08:37.118 --> 01:08:37.269
yeah,

3190
01:08:37.398 --> 01:08:38.148
I'm not sure,

3191
01:08:38.188 --> 01:08:38.917
it's a good question,

3192
01:08:38.999 --> 01:08:39.519
but and I,

3193
01:08:39.587 --> 01:08:40.479
and I take your point,

3194
01:08:40.559 --> 01:08:40.837
but I,

3195
01:08:40.929 --> 01:08:43.938
I don't know why people would view China as less of a threat

3196
01:08:44.118 --> 01:08:44.618
now.

3197
01:08:44.957 --> 01:08:45.438
Um,

3198
01:08:45.519 --> 01:08:45.999
if anything,

3199
01:08:46.078 --> 01:08:47.158
they're more so.

3200
01:08:47.318 --> 01:08:50.059
They are increasingly aggressive in their efforts,

3201
01:08:50.398 --> 01:08:50.868
uh,

3202
01:08:50.877 --> 01:08:52.139
to steal

3203
01:08:52.398 --> 01:08:53.358
proprietary data,

3204
01:08:53.438 --> 01:08:55.519
to steal information to economic espionage,

3205
01:08:55.599 --> 01:08:56.698
however you want to refer to it,

3206
01:08:57.078 --> 01:08:57.828
R&D,

3207
01:08:58.238 --> 01:08:58.358
right?

3208
01:08:58.438 --> 01:08:58.957
It's cost,

3209
01:08:59.038 --> 01:09:00.038
it's cost the US and,

3210
01:09:00.118 --> 01:09:01.099
and US allies,

3211
01:09:01.438 --> 01:09:01.868
uh.

3212
01:09:03.250 --> 01:09:05.149
It's really incalculable in terms of

3213
01:09:05.529 --> 01:09:05.799
the,

3214
01:09:05.810 --> 01:09:07.990
the damage that they've done over the decades

3215
01:09:08.290 --> 01:09:08.859
of

3216
01:09:09.529 --> 01:09:12.390
Of stealing information with the express purpose of,

3217
01:09:12.850 --> 01:09:13.229
you know,

3218
01:09:13.450 --> 01:09:14.350
skipping that,

3219
01:09:14.689 --> 01:09:16.810
that whole heavy lift of research and development,

3220
01:09:16.890 --> 01:09:17.029
right?

3221
01:09:17.169 --> 01:09:17.419
Just,

3222
01:09:17.529 --> 01:09:18.169
that's how they,

3223
01:09:18.250 --> 01:09:19.149
they want to get

3224
01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:20.029
ahead,

3225
01:09:20.290 --> 01:09:20.629
uh,

3226
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:21.479
on the ladder.

3227
01:09:21.850 --> 01:09:22.629
And their goal,

3228
01:09:22.890 --> 01:09:25.169
their belief in Xi Jinping and the regime,

3229
01:09:25.250 --> 01:09:25.779
the Communist Party,

3230
01:09:25.839 --> 01:09:26.689
I'm not talking about the Chinese,

3231
01:09:26.910 --> 01:09:27.490
Chinese history,

3232
01:09:27.649 --> 01:09:28.250
Chinese culture,

3233
01:09:28.450 --> 01:09:28.729
Chinese,

3234
01:09:28.970 --> 01:09:29.720
it's fantastic.

3235
01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:30.560
It's amazing,

3236
01:09:30.970 --> 01:09:31.950
amazing history.

3237
01:09:32.370 --> 01:09:33.149
Um,

3238
01:09:33.529 --> 01:09:34.209
and,

3239
01:09:34.729 --> 01:09:34.879
you know,

3240
01:09:34.970 --> 01:09:35.649
but I'm talking about the,

3241
01:09:35.729 --> 01:09:36.770
the Communist Party,

3242
01:09:36.830 --> 01:09:39.009
the Chinese Communist Party under Xi Jinping.

3243
01:09:39.620 --> 01:09:43.500
They firmly believe and have for a long time

3244
01:09:43.819 --> 01:09:44.430
that

3245
01:09:44.660 --> 01:09:46.229
their right is to be,

3246
01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:47.020
it's the Middle Kingdom,

3247
01:09:47.060 --> 01:09:49.330
it's it's to be the center of the universe,

3248
01:09:49.660 --> 01:09:49.819
right?

3249
01:09:49.899 --> 01:09:51.839
That's where they believe they should be

3250
01:09:52.149 --> 01:09:54.080
and everything they're doing now

3251
01:09:54.339 --> 01:09:54.759
is

3252
01:09:55.220 --> 01:09:56.620
in that pursuit,

3253
01:09:56.919 --> 01:09:57.330
right?

3254
01:09:57.700 --> 01:09:59.129
So building out their navy,

3255
01:09:59.330 --> 01:10:00.160
pushing out

3256
01:10:00.779 --> 01:10:01.720
into the,

3257
01:10:02.180 --> 01:10:03.129
into the South Pacific,

3258
01:10:03.140 --> 01:10:03.609
in the,

3259
01:10:03.620 --> 01:10:04.700
in the uh

3260
01:10:04.879 --> 01:10:05.959
uh sort of the

3261
01:10:06.270 --> 01:10:07.189
The idea that

3262
01:10:07.709 --> 01:10:10.149
we're not content now with just letting America,

3263
01:10:10.310 --> 01:10:10.470
you know,

3264
01:10:10.580 --> 01:10:12.140
kind of run this area and for,

3265
01:10:12.229 --> 01:10:12.390
you know,

3266
01:10:12.589 --> 01:10:13.390
freedom of navigation,

3267
01:10:13.430 --> 01:10:13.669
all that,

3268
01:10:13.790 --> 01:10:13.899
no,

3269
01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:14.589
this is ours,

3270
01:10:14.669 --> 01:10:14.810
right?

3271
01:10:14.870 --> 01:10:16.290
So that's why you're seeing increasing,

3272
01:10:16.629 --> 01:10:16.790
you know,

3273
01:10:16.910 --> 01:10:17.660
interactions and,

3274
01:10:17.740 --> 01:10:18.129
and

3275
01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:21.560
And encounters with the Philippine Navy,

3276
01:10:21.640 --> 01:10:22.060
for example,

3277
01:10:22.490 --> 01:10:22.899
uh,

3278
01:10:22.910 --> 01:10:23.839
and others in the area,

3279
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:24.379
Japan.

3280
01:10:24.479 --> 01:10:24.640
I mean,

3281
01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:26.229
you talk to Japan and Philippines,

3282
01:10:26.279 --> 01:10:28.229
they don't view China as less of a threat now,

3283
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:29.419
by any means.

3284
01:10:29.759 --> 01:10:30.189
Uh,

3285
01:10:30.200 --> 01:10:31.479
Taiwan always comes up,

3286
01:10:31.839 --> 01:10:32.200
you know,

3287
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:32.450
and,

3288
01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:34.160
and rightly so.

3289
01:10:34.910 --> 01:10:35.109
You know,

3290
01:10:35.189 --> 01:10:38.100
are they going to do a full scale military invasion of Taiwan,

3291
01:10:38.350 --> 01:10:38.410
um,

3292
01:10:38.669 --> 01:10:39.109
you know.

3293
01:10:40.250 --> 01:10:41.919
That is massively complex,

3294
01:10:41.970 --> 01:10:42.419
even

3295
01:10:42.850 --> 01:10:45.189
given the disparity between the two countries.

3296
01:10:45.750 --> 01:10:46.370
Um,

3297
01:10:46.649 --> 01:10:47.000
so,

3298
01:10:47.169 --> 01:10:47.319
you know,

3299
01:10:47.410 --> 01:10:49.549
but they have been engaged in sort of a soft.

3300
01:10:50.509 --> 01:10:51.370
Campaign

3301
01:10:51.709 --> 01:10:53.950
against Taiwan for years now.

3302
01:10:54.390 --> 01:10:56.770
And so there's a lot of elements when you talk about

3303
01:10:57.540 --> 01:10:58.870
reclaiming Taiwan,

3304
01:10:58.950 --> 01:11:00.540
which is Xi Jinping's,

3305
01:11:00.549 --> 01:11:01.729
what he considers to be

3306
01:11:01.990 --> 01:11:03.379
the natural order of things.

3307
01:11:03.750 --> 01:11:04.250
So,

3308
01:11:04.259 --> 01:11:05.209
if there's a timeline,

3309
01:11:05.299 --> 01:11:06.220
does that mean that

3310
01:11:06.750 --> 01:11:09.410
they want to move on Taiwan before Xi Jinping

3311
01:11:10.270 --> 01:11:11.470
Rides off into the sunset,

3312
01:11:11.589 --> 01:11:12.540
possibly so.

3313
01:11:12.870 --> 01:11:14.959
He's made it such an important part of his legacy.

3314
01:11:15.509 --> 01:11:15.890
So,

3315
01:11:16.109 --> 01:11:16.970
I think um

3316
01:11:18.339 --> 01:11:18.540
You know,

3317
01:11:18.740 --> 01:11:20.120
China is still number one

3318
01:11:20.270 --> 01:11:21.740
on the concerns list.

3319
01:11:22.490 --> 01:11:23.080
Um,

3320
01:11:23.180 --> 01:11:25.040
and I don't think that's going to change

3321
01:11:25.339 --> 01:11:26.299
anytime soon.

3322
01:11:26.540 --> 01:11:26.970
Obviously,

3323
01:11:26.979 --> 01:11:27.899
you've got Russia,

3324
01:11:28.100 --> 01:11:28.220
you know,

3325
01:11:28.339 --> 01:11:29.379
their invasion of Ukraine,

3326
01:11:29.459 --> 01:11:31.270
you've got North Korea and their nuclear arsenal.

3327
01:11:31.339 --> 01:11:31.979
You've got Iran,

3328
01:11:32.060 --> 01:11:32.339
of course,

3329
01:11:32.459 --> 01:11:34.399
cause it's right front and center right now.

3330
01:11:35.140 --> 01:11:35.620
Um,

3331
01:11:35.819 --> 01:11:38.060
but China just continues to sit up there,

3332
01:11:38.419 --> 01:11:38.620
you know,

3333
01:11:38.740 --> 01:11:41.279
they're the number one perpetrator of cyber shenanigans,

3334
01:11:41.580 --> 01:11:41.970
uh,

3335
01:11:42.220 --> 01:11:42.700
theft of,

3336
01:11:42.790 --> 01:11:43.919
of information,

3337
01:11:44.270 --> 01:11:44.899
um,

3338
01:11:45.540 --> 01:11:47.000
efforts to influence

3339
01:11:47.180 --> 01:11:49.890
through misinformation and disinformation campaigns,

3340
01:11:50.290 --> 01:11:50.490
uh,

3341
01:11:50.779 --> 01:11:50.939
you know,

3342
01:11:51.020 --> 01:11:52.220
there's a lot going on there.

3343
01:11:53.459 --> 01:11:53.779
Yeah,

3344
01:11:53.979 --> 01:11:54.140
yeah,

3345
01:11:54.259 --> 01:11:54.509
the,

3346
01:11:54.660 --> 01:11:55.359
the

3347
01:11:56.569 --> 01:11:56.580
I,

3348
01:11:56.589 --> 01:11:56.600
I,

3349
01:11:56.689 --> 01:11:57.850
I,

3350
01:11:58.089 --> 01:11:58.770
I think they're,

3351
01:11:58.890 --> 01:12:00.100
it's only a matter of time

3352
01:12:00.490 --> 01:12:01.959
before they move on Taiwan.

3353
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:02.810
I think they're a big,

3354
01:12:03.129 --> 01:12:03.910
big threat,

3355
01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:04.839
um,

3356
01:12:05.009 --> 01:12:05.649
it's

3357
01:12:06.390 --> 01:12:07.700
They're also a

3358
01:12:07.870 --> 01:12:09.669
uh a bit of a black box.

3359
01:12:09.750 --> 01:12:12.290
It must be really difficult to get good human

3360
01:12:12.430 --> 01:12:13.109
out of there.

3361
01:12:13.229 --> 01:12:15.770
It must be really difficult to get good intelligence

3362
01:12:15.899 --> 01:12:18.009
out of China compared to even,

3363
01:12:18.020 --> 01:12:19.990
even maybe somewhere like Iran,

3364
01:12:20.270 --> 01:12:20.729
um,

3365
01:12:20.740 --> 01:12:21.549
or Russia.

3366
01:12:22.149 --> 01:12:22.850
They

3367
01:12:23.779 --> 01:12:23.790
The

3368
01:12:25.890 --> 01:12:27.029
Very closed off

3369
01:12:27.609 --> 01:12:28.009
to and they,

3370
01:12:28.049 --> 01:12:28.709
I think

3371
01:12:29.169 --> 01:12:32.669
the CIA had had a lot of agents there and

3372
01:12:32.930 --> 01:12:33.830
uh it was the,

3373
01:12:33.890 --> 01:12:36.439
what was it the early 2000s or mid 2000s,

3374
01:12:36.629 --> 01:12:37.580
China just like

3375
01:12:38.049 --> 01:12:39.770
rounded a bunch of them up and killed them,

3376
01:12:40.370 --> 01:12:40.680
killed,

3377
01:12:40.729 --> 01:12:42.500
I think over 100 of them or something.

3378
01:12:43.209 --> 01:12:44.069
Um,

3379
01:12:44.450 --> 01:12:44.609
yeah,

3380
01:12:44.689 --> 01:12:45.169
it's a,

3381
01:12:45.290 --> 01:12:46.549
it's definitely a concern.

3382
01:12:47.129 --> 01:12:47.370
It is,

3383
01:12:47.470 --> 01:12:47.660
it's,

3384
01:12:47.770 --> 01:12:47.890
yeah,

3385
01:12:48.009 --> 01:12:48.160
we've,

3386
01:12:48.250 --> 01:12:48.370
we,

3387
01:12:48.450 --> 01:12:51.520
we've had incidents like that where we've had a breach in the

3388
01:12:52.250 --> 01:12:52.609
You know,

3389
01:12:52.729 --> 01:12:57.549
and usually it comes down to a counterintelligence failure or a traitor

3390
01:12:58.450 --> 01:12:59.950
who discloses we had that problem.

3391
01:13:01.029 --> 01:13:01.339
In,

3392
01:13:01.350 --> 01:13:01.609
uh,

3393
01:13:01.620 --> 01:13:02.330
with Hansen

3394
01:13:02.470 --> 01:13:02.859
in,

3395
01:13:02.870 --> 01:13:03.430
uh,

3396
01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:03.790
Russia,

3397
01:13:03.870 --> 01:13:04.770
we had it in

3398
01:13:04.930 --> 01:13:05.459
Cuba,

3399
01:13:06.169 --> 01:13:07.290
with Anna Montes,

3400
01:13:07.350 --> 01:13:07.959
um,

3401
01:13:08.149 --> 01:13:08.750
and some others.

3402
01:13:08.959 --> 01:13:09.330
So,

3403
01:13:09.709 --> 01:13:09.830
you know,

3404
01:13:09.910 --> 01:13:10.270
that's,

3405
01:13:10.390 --> 01:13:11.450
that's been a problem,

3406
01:13:11.549 --> 01:13:12.229
um.

3407
01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:13.979
But

3408
01:13:14.790 --> 01:13:14.950
Yeah,

3409
01:13:15.029 --> 01:13:16.189
I think with China.

3410
01:13:19.220 --> 01:13:20.089
You have to look,

3411
01:13:20.140 --> 01:13:21.259
the world is so interconnected,

3412
01:13:21.339 --> 01:13:21.540
right?

3413
01:13:21.620 --> 01:13:22.459
It's a small world,

3414
01:13:22.500 --> 01:13:23.759
it's a shrinking world.

3415
01:13:24.220 --> 01:13:26.109
So it's not like you can't

3416
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:27.660
be engaged with China,

3417
01:13:27.740 --> 01:13:28.299
of course you can,

3418
01:13:28.399 --> 01:13:30.180
but you have to be pragmatic about what their

3419
01:13:30.180 --> 01:13:31.970
intentions are and where they want to go,

3420
01:13:31.979 --> 01:13:32.279
and

3421
01:13:32.540 --> 01:13:32.649
I,

3422
01:13:32.700 --> 01:13:32.899
you know,

3423
01:13:33.049 --> 01:13:34.359
you can love or hate.

3424
01:13:35.169 --> 01:13:36.709
The Trump administration,

3425
01:13:36.810 --> 01:13:37.529
um,

3426
01:13:37.850 --> 01:13:39.049
from an operational perspective,

3427
01:13:39.129 --> 01:13:40.040
I'm glad that,

3428
01:13:40.330 --> 01:13:41.319
that Trump is

3429
01:13:41.770 --> 01:13:43.830
focused more of a light on China

3430
01:13:44.160 --> 01:13:46.549
and then the disparities in the relationship,

3431
01:13:46.890 --> 01:13:47.129
uh,

3432
01:13:47.250 --> 01:13:48.470
and also some of their,

3433
01:13:48.609 --> 01:13:48.930
their,

3434
01:13:48.970 --> 01:13:49.450
uh,

3435
01:13:50.009 --> 01:13:50.129
you know,

3436
01:13:50.250 --> 01:13:53.229
shenanigans in cyberspace and also their espionage,

3437
01:13:53.850 --> 01:13:54.279
um,

3438
01:13:54.490 --> 01:13:55.950
here in the US and with our allies.

3439
01:13:56.009 --> 01:13:57.089
So that's all a good thing.

3440
01:13:57.149 --> 01:13:57.890
It gets people,

3441
01:13:58.049 --> 01:13:58.290
you know,

3442
01:13:58.450 --> 01:13:58.910
somewhat

3443
01:13:59.370 --> 01:13:59.910
focused.

3444
01:14:00.160 --> 01:14:00.729
It doesn't change.

3445
01:14:00.810 --> 01:14:00.970
I mean,

3446
01:14:01.169 --> 01:14:01.589
Obama.

3447
01:14:02.509 --> 01:14:03.109
Back in the day,

3448
01:14:03.220 --> 01:14:04.049
President Obama,

3449
01:14:04.509 --> 01:14:04.859
you know,

3450
01:14:05.029 --> 01:14:08.810
when Xi Jinping supposedly they had reached a deal and,

3451
01:14:09.029 --> 01:14:09.390
you know,

3452
01:14:09.669 --> 01:14:11.390
China wasn't going to engage in any more

3453
01:14:11.390 --> 01:14:13.830
cyber shenanigans and that was all bullshit,

3454
01:14:13.970 --> 01:14:14.069
right?

3455
01:14:14.149 --> 01:14:14.259
They,

3456
01:14:14.330 --> 01:14:15.729
they basically just doubled down,

3457
01:14:15.870 --> 01:14:15.990
right?

3458
01:14:16.069 --> 01:14:16.810
So you have to be,

3459
01:14:16.990 --> 01:14:17.859
you have to work with them,

3460
01:14:17.939 --> 01:14:18.700
you have to deal with them,

3461
01:14:18.750 --> 01:14:20.270
you have to live in the world with them.

3462
01:14:20.509 --> 01:14:20.629
You know,

3463
01:14:20.709 --> 01:14:22.689
there's a lot of benefit that we can gain

3464
01:14:23.390 --> 01:14:25.839
uh from the right type of relationship,

3465
01:14:25.910 --> 01:14:28.109
but you also have to be pragmatic about it as well.

3466
01:14:29.299 --> 01:14:29.819
It,

3467
01:14:30.029 --> 01:14:30.560
it's,

3468
01:14:30.899 --> 01:14:33.899
it seems almost like one of the biggest intelligence questions is,

3469
01:14:33.979 --> 01:14:34.779
is what you mentioned,

3470
01:14:34.859 --> 01:14:35.959
which is what is

3471
01:14:36.299 --> 01:14:37.200
China's intention

3472
01:14:37.379 --> 01:14:38.140
and like

3473
01:14:38.359 --> 01:14:39.600
a big part of the reason why

3474
01:14:40.370 --> 01:14:42.839
CIA was stood up in the first place was to figure out

3475
01:14:43.169 --> 01:14:43.700
things like that,

3476
01:14:43.779 --> 01:14:45.479
like what is the country's intentions.

3477
01:14:45.899 --> 01:14:46.720
And

3478
01:14:47.100 --> 01:14:48.299
I think when you look at the United States,

3479
01:14:48.339 --> 01:14:48.709
it's,

3480
01:14:48.799 --> 01:14:49.560
it's pretty

3481
01:14:50.000 --> 01:14:52.759
easy to see what our intentions are a lot of times like

3482
01:14:53.049 --> 01:14:54.169
Especially in the Pacific,

3483
01:14:54.330 --> 01:14:56.819
our intentions are to keep the status quo,

3484
01:14:57.089 --> 01:14:58.520
and in a lot of cases,

3485
01:14:58.569 --> 01:14:59.669
it it seems like our,

3486
01:14:59.689 --> 01:15:02.549
our intentions are to kind of keep the status quo,

3487
01:15:03.129 --> 01:15:03.669
but

3488
01:15:04.410 --> 01:15:04.729
the,

3489
01:15:04.810 --> 01:15:05.370
it's more,

3490
01:15:05.450 --> 01:15:06.629
it's more of a

3491
01:15:07.580 --> 01:15:11.259
Big question mark as to what is China's intentions.

3492
01:15:11.700 --> 01:15:12.149
What

3493
01:15:12.419 --> 01:15:12.779
are they,

3494
01:15:12.859 --> 01:15:13.439
is,

3495
01:15:13.979 --> 01:15:16.479
are they hell-bent on capturing

3496
01:15:16.660 --> 01:15:18.080
Taiwan by any means,

3497
01:15:18.540 --> 01:15:19.240
or

3498
01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:24.229
Is that kind of just a domestic political issue that they kind of

3499
01:15:24.500 --> 01:15:25.709
rile up sometimes,

3500
01:15:25.930 --> 01:15:26.290
but it,

3501
01:15:26.410 --> 01:15:26.520
it,

3502
01:15:27.209 --> 01:15:27.689
yeah,

3503
01:15:27.890 --> 01:15:28.089
it's,

3504
01:15:28.169 --> 01:15:28.609
it is,

3505
01:15:28.740 --> 01:15:28.850
look,

3506
01:15:28.970 --> 01:15:29.129
you know,

3507
01:15:29.490 --> 01:15:31.370
that's always the tough part and that's always the,

3508
01:15:31.529 --> 01:15:32.950
the goal of

3509
01:15:33.250 --> 01:15:34.569
any intelligence collection effort,

3510
01:15:34.649 --> 01:15:34.770
right,

3511
01:15:34.850 --> 01:15:35.830
is understanding

3512
01:15:36.339 --> 01:15:36.680
again,

3513
01:15:36.689 --> 01:15:37.330
motivations,

3514
01:15:37.490 --> 01:15:37.759
plans,

3515
01:15:37.810 --> 01:15:38.629
intentions,

3516
01:15:38.970 --> 01:15:39.649
um,

3517
01:15:40.049 --> 01:15:40.240
you know,

3518
01:15:40.330 --> 01:15:40.520
what's,

3519
01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:41.029
what's the,

3520
01:15:41.089 --> 01:15:42.700
what's the agenda and so

3521
01:15:42.850 --> 01:15:43.609
with China,

3522
01:15:43.859 --> 01:15:44.290
look,

3523
01:15:44.890 --> 01:15:47.240
Taiwan from the Communist Party's perspective,

3524
01:15:47.370 --> 01:15:49.310
certainly from Xi Jinping's perspective,

3525
01:15:49.609 --> 01:15:50.129
um.

3526
01:15:50.850 --> 01:15:52.450
Taiwan is what they,

3527
01:15:52.529 --> 01:15:54.029
that that's their

3528
01:15:54.410 --> 01:15:54.879
right,

3529
01:15:55.009 --> 01:15:55.609
that's their,

3530
01:15:55.689 --> 01:15:56.959
that belongs to them,

3531
01:15:57.109 --> 01:15:57.250
right?

3532
01:15:57.330 --> 01:15:58.359
They believe that,

3533
01:15:58.410 --> 01:15:58.870
and,

3534
01:15:59.290 --> 01:15:59.529
you know,

3535
01:15:59.649 --> 01:16:02.049
now it's interesting because over all these years,

3536
01:16:02.169 --> 01:16:02.569
you know.

3537
01:16:03.330 --> 01:16:03.609
Uh,

3538
01:16:03.729 --> 01:16:04.609
do the Taiwanese,

3539
01:16:04.770 --> 01:16:04.850
you know,

3540
01:16:04.930 --> 01:16:07.529
for the most part consider themselves to be mainland China?

3541
01:16:07.569 --> 01:16:07.689
No,

3542
01:16:07.810 --> 01:16:08.129
they don't,

3543
01:16:08.250 --> 01:16:08.430
right?

3544
01:16:08.529 --> 01:16:08.990
So,

3545
01:16:09.770 --> 01:16:12.100
there's going to be an issue here at some point.

3546
01:16:12.450 --> 01:16:13.120
And there's,

3547
01:16:13.450 --> 01:16:13.569
you know,

3548
01:16:13.680 --> 01:16:15.569
there's interesting reporting that talks about,

3549
01:16:15.810 --> 01:16:15.970
you know,

3550
01:16:16.209 --> 01:16:19.709
perhaps there's a bit of a difference between Xi Jinping's outlook and

3551
01:16:20.009 --> 01:16:21.250
some of the Chinese military,

3552
01:16:21.330 --> 01:16:22.560
the PLA's outlook,

3553
01:16:22.649 --> 01:16:22.850
right?

3554
01:16:22.890 --> 01:16:23.390
I think

3555
01:16:23.750 --> 01:16:24.229
PLA,

3556
01:16:24.370 --> 01:16:25.069
there may be

3557
01:16:25.410 --> 01:16:28.009
leadership issues there in terms of pushing back and saying,

3558
01:16:28.209 --> 01:16:28.330
look,

3559
01:16:28.370 --> 01:16:28.839
this,

3560
01:16:29.169 --> 01:16:29.490
you know.

3561
01:16:30.089 --> 01:16:30.470
Really?

3562
01:16:30.669 --> 01:16:30.790
You,

3563
01:16:30.910 --> 01:16:32.009
you really wanna do this?

3564
01:16:32.390 --> 01:16:32.990
Um,

3565
01:16:33.069 --> 01:16:33.700
in terms of,

3566
01:16:33.830 --> 01:16:33.930
you know,

3567
01:16:33.990 --> 01:16:34.629
the chaos,

3568
01:16:34.750 --> 01:16:36.890
how about we just continue the soft campaign.

3569
01:16:37.390 --> 01:16:37.790
Eventually,

3570
01:16:37.870 --> 01:16:40.490
we'll get what we want again with this long view.

3571
01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:42.020
Um,

3572
01:16:42.640 --> 01:16:43.180
but,

3573
01:16:43.640 --> 01:16:43.790
you know,

3574
01:16:43.879 --> 01:16:46.270
I keep going back to this idea that like they're,

3575
01:16:46.299 --> 01:16:46.479
they,

3576
01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:48.600
they view themselves as the Middle Kingdom.

3577
01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:51.080
That literally means the center of the earth,

3578
01:16:51.120 --> 01:16:51.950
the center

3579
01:16:52.200 --> 01:16:53.259
of the universe.

3580
01:16:53.879 --> 01:16:54.700
That's how they

3581
01:16:54.879 --> 01:16:55.779
perceive themselves,

3582
01:16:56.040 --> 01:16:56.560
right?

3583
01:16:57.200 --> 01:16:59.399
Not the US at the top of the food chain.

3584
01:16:59.479 --> 01:17:00.359
That's not where,

3585
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:01.740
that's not the rightful

3586
01:17:02.040 --> 01:17:03.080
position of things,

3587
01:17:03.160 --> 01:17:03.509
right?

3588
01:17:03.609 --> 01:17:04.339
It should be

3589
01:17:04.759 --> 01:17:06.919
China from their perspective at the top of the food chain.

3590
01:17:07.279 --> 01:17:07.689
So,

3591
01:17:07.720 --> 01:17:07.879
again,

3592
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:11.839
just keeping that in mind and keeping being pragmatic about how we deal with them,

3593
01:17:12.040 --> 01:17:12.879
but you have to deal with them,

3594
01:17:13.029 --> 01:17:13.169
right?

3595
01:17:13.240 --> 01:17:13.399
I mean,

3596
01:17:13.439 --> 01:17:13.680
it's,

3597
01:17:13.790 --> 01:17:13.919
you know,

3598
01:17:14.040 --> 01:17:14.209
you,

3599
01:17:14.359 --> 01:17:15.879
it's the world as it is.

3600
01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:16.799
Uh,

3601
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:17.540
so,

3602
01:17:18.160 --> 01:17:18.959
it is fascinating,

3603
01:17:19.040 --> 01:17:19.399
but yeah,

3604
01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:20.020
the

3605
01:17:21.180 --> 01:17:21.189
Yeah

3606
01:17:22.209 --> 01:17:22.379
You know,

3607
01:17:22.459 --> 01:17:22.649
the,

3608
01:17:22.740 --> 01:17:22.950
the,

3609
01:17:23.020 --> 01:17:23.500
the.

3610
01:17:24.529 --> 01:17:26.600
Taiwanese issue will always dominate,

3611
01:17:26.649 --> 01:17:27.129
at least in the,

3612
01:17:27.189 --> 01:17:28.450
in the short to midterm,

3613
01:17:28.810 --> 01:17:31.009
because that's just sort of where the narrative's always been.

3614
01:17:31.330 --> 01:17:32.770
But a lot of the damages,

3615
01:17:33.009 --> 01:17:33.169
you know,

3616
01:17:33.250 --> 01:17:33.479
that,

3617
01:17:33.609 --> 01:17:36.470
that has been done is being done is on that.

3618
01:17:37.229 --> 01:17:37.729
That

3619
01:17:38.700 --> 01:17:39.459
information space,

3620
01:17:39.629 --> 01:17:39.979
right?

3621
01:17:40.229 --> 01:17:41.569
The theft of intelligence,

3622
01:17:41.790 --> 01:17:42.990
the use of,

3623
01:17:43.189 --> 01:17:46.250
of Chinese technology and key components

3624
01:17:46.509 --> 01:17:48.470
that the US and our allies have,

3625
01:17:48.549 --> 01:17:50.609
whether it's telecommunications gear,

3626
01:17:51.149 --> 01:17:53.250
whether it's military components

3627
01:17:53.669 --> 01:17:54.700
that end up in,

3628
01:17:54.790 --> 01:17:55.290
in,

3629
01:17:55.549 --> 01:17:56.089
in

3630
01:17:56.350 --> 01:17:59.020
critical assets used by the US or whatever.

3631
01:17:59.069 --> 01:17:59.589
It's,

3632
01:18:00.080 --> 01:18:00.310
you know,

3633
01:18:00.669 --> 01:18:00.750
everything,

3634
01:18:00.830 --> 01:18:01.870
the supply chain is,

3635
01:18:01.910 --> 01:18:03.689
is so interconnected now,

3636
01:18:03.990 --> 01:18:04.500
um,

3637
01:18:04.669 --> 01:18:05.310
and

3638
01:18:05.589 --> 01:18:06.290
the

3639
01:18:07.299 --> 01:18:07.419
You know,

3640
01:18:07.500 --> 01:18:09.060
the Chinese intel apparatus,

3641
01:18:09.220 --> 01:18:10.640
the Communist Party has been

3642
01:18:11.100 --> 01:18:11.839
very

3643
01:18:12.220 --> 01:18:12.819
um

3644
01:18:13.740 --> 01:18:14.560
Very smart,

3645
01:18:14.740 --> 01:18:16.140
I suppose you could use that word

3646
01:18:16.419 --> 01:18:16.919
in

3647
01:18:17.580 --> 01:18:18.200
understanding

3648
01:18:18.339 --> 01:18:19.759
the place of technology,

3649
01:18:20.299 --> 01:18:20.970
um,

3650
01:18:21.100 --> 01:18:21.779
and so,

3651
01:18:21.979 --> 01:18:22.100
you know,

3652
01:18:22.140 --> 01:18:24.299
that Elvis has left the building on some of that,

3653
01:18:24.419 --> 01:18:24.609
you know,

3654
01:18:24.689 --> 01:18:26.759
and people can look up Huawei and

3655
01:18:26.939 --> 01:18:28.200
some of the other incidents,

3656
01:18:28.529 --> 01:18:29.220
um,

3657
01:18:29.620 --> 01:18:30.120
but,

3658
01:18:30.609 --> 01:18:30.779
you know,

3659
01:18:30.859 --> 01:18:31.540
there's a reason,

3660
01:18:31.589 --> 01:18:31.779
you know,

3661
01:18:31.859 --> 01:18:34.080
people shouldn't roll their eyes when people talk about

3662
01:18:34.290 --> 01:18:35.399
the threat from

3663
01:18:35.979 --> 01:18:36.359
China,

3664
01:18:36.620 --> 01:18:37.100
right?

3665
01:18:37.459 --> 01:18:38.109
Um.

3666
01:18:38.589 --> 01:18:38.790
You know,

3667
01:18:38.839 --> 01:18:40.750
we're not talking about China invading the US,

3668
01:18:40.830 --> 01:18:42.359
but we're talking about other,

3669
01:18:42.379 --> 01:18:43.609
other ways that it costs

3670
01:18:43.970 --> 01:18:44.930
the US and allies

3671
01:18:45.390 --> 01:18:48.229
from a national security perspective and an economic perspective.

3672
01:18:49.930 --> 01:18:51.629
I'm such a cheery son of a bitch.

3673
01:18:52.370 --> 01:18:52.810
These are,

3674
01:18:52.970 --> 01:18:55.759
these are some of the most cheery uh topics that,

3675
01:18:55.790 --> 01:18:56.430
that

3676
01:18:56.609 --> 01:18:57.750
people could talk about,

3677
01:18:58.729 --> 01:18:59.089
um.

3678
01:19:00.169 --> 01:19:00.490
Yeah,

3679
01:19:00.609 --> 01:19:01.109
yeah,

3680
01:19:01.529 --> 01:19:02.160
well,

3681
01:19:03.229 --> 01:19:04.020
Um,

3682
01:19:04.930 --> 01:19:05.169
Yeah,

3683
01:19:05.370 --> 01:19:05.910
just

3684
01:19:06.450 --> 01:19:06.850
some,

3685
01:19:07.169 --> 01:19:09.759
the interesting thing I saw was the CIA was,

3686
01:19:09.770 --> 01:19:10.200
uh,

3687
01:19:10.370 --> 01:19:11.620
they're recruiting,

3688
01:19:12.169 --> 01:19:14.350
they're trying to recruit through like YouTube now,

3689
01:19:14.410 --> 01:19:14.810
where they put,

3690
01:19:14.890 --> 01:19:15.709
they put out those

3691
01:19:16.890 --> 01:19:17.830
videos,

3692
01:19:18.000 --> 01:19:18.770
uh,

3693
01:19:19.169 --> 01:19:20.089
would you see those?

3694
01:19:20.490 --> 01:19:20.939
Yeah,

3695
01:19:21.189 --> 01:19:21.200
yeah,

3696
01:19:21.290 --> 01:19:22.470
it's kind of funny the,

3697
01:19:22.549 --> 01:19:22.990
the,

3698
01:19:23.060 --> 01:19:24.549
the new ways that

3699
01:19:25.450 --> 01:19:28.299
I could picture some like social media manager

3700
01:19:28.410 --> 01:19:29.770
at the agency being like.

3701
01:19:30.299 --> 01:19:30.879
Hey,

3702
01:19:31.140 --> 01:19:32.060
let's try this.

3703
01:19:32.339 --> 01:19:32.720
Yeah.

3704
01:19:33.020 --> 01:19:33.089
Well,

3705
01:19:33.129 --> 01:19:33.700
the problem is it's,

3706
01:19:33.770 --> 01:19:34.580
it's still government,

3707
01:19:34.660 --> 01:19:34.819
right?

3708
01:19:34.890 --> 01:19:35.049
And,

3709
01:19:35.169 --> 01:19:35.799
and so,

3710
01:19:35.979 --> 01:19:40.319
the government can always kind of still be running like 2 or 3 or 4 steps behind

3711
01:19:41.040 --> 01:19:42.220
sort of the innovators of,

3712
01:19:42.310 --> 01:19:42.689
of,

3713
01:19:42.859 --> 01:19:43.060
you know,

3714
01:19:43.209 --> 01:19:44.060
the private sector,

3715
01:19:44.140 --> 01:19:44.310
right?

3716
01:19:44.419 --> 01:19:45.970
So you'll see something that they do and you think,

3717
01:19:45.990 --> 01:19:46.120
well,

3718
01:19:46.140 --> 01:19:47.100
that seems like it was,

3719
01:19:47.209 --> 01:19:47.600
you know,

3720
01:19:47.979 --> 01:19:49.390
pulled out of the 1990s,

3721
01:19:49.470 --> 01:19:49.620
right?

3722
01:19:49.660 --> 01:19:50.439
It's because

3723
01:19:50.979 --> 01:19:52.020
this lag of,

3724
01:19:52.100 --> 01:19:52.259
of,

3725
01:19:52.290 --> 01:19:52.299
of,

3726
01:19:52.580 --> 01:19:52.700
you know,

3727
01:19:52.819 --> 01:19:55.129
cause then you have to get approvals to do it and before you know it,

3728
01:19:55.180 --> 01:19:55.620
you know,

3729
01:19:55.899 --> 01:19:56.560
now you're,

3730
01:19:56.939 --> 01:19:57.180
you know,

3731
01:19:57.299 --> 01:19:58.060
you look like a,

3732
01:19:58.220 --> 01:19:58.279
uh,

3733
01:19:58.379 --> 01:19:58.580
you know,

3734
01:19:58.649 --> 01:19:58.979
a

3735
01:19:59.430 --> 01:19:59.830
I don't know.

3736
01:19:59.910 --> 01:20:00.029
It's,

3737
01:20:00.069 --> 01:20:00.220
it's,

3738
01:20:00.270 --> 01:20:00.549
it is,

3739
01:20:00.629 --> 01:20:01.450
it is interesting,

3740
01:20:01.509 --> 01:20:01.819
uh,

3741
01:20:01.870 --> 01:20:03.250
but whether you're talking about

3742
01:20:03.669 --> 01:20:04.270
how they,

3743
01:20:04.509 --> 01:20:04.750
you know,

3744
01:20:05.299 --> 01:20:06.609
use social media

3745
01:20:06.910 --> 01:20:08.649
to kind of target

3746
01:20:09.430 --> 01:20:10.990
potential recruits overseas,

3747
01:20:11.109 --> 01:20:11.310
right?

3748
01:20:11.430 --> 01:20:11.990
Assets,

3749
01:20:12.029 --> 01:20:12.299
I mean,

3750
01:20:12.390 --> 01:20:12.790
like

3751
01:20:13.109 --> 01:20:13.669
informants,

3752
01:20:13.709 --> 01:20:14.589
however you want to refer to,

3753
01:20:14.629 --> 01:20:15.669
we don't use the word informant,

3754
01:20:15.750 --> 01:20:16.240
but you know what I mean,

3755
01:20:16.350 --> 01:20:16.979
sources,

3756
01:20:17.370 --> 01:20:17.899
um,

3757
01:20:18.149 --> 01:20:19.890
or whether they use it to try to

3758
01:20:20.549 --> 01:20:21.700
interest people to,

3759
01:20:21.990 --> 01:20:22.149
you know,

3760
01:20:22.350 --> 01:20:23.549
seek employment with the agency,

3761
01:20:23.629 --> 01:20:23.859
right?

3762
01:20:24.020 --> 01:20:24.660
Um.

3763
01:20:25.060 --> 01:20:26.100
It's a different world.

3764
01:20:26.180 --> 01:20:28.060
It's a much different world than it used to be.

3765
01:20:28.339 --> 01:20:32.759
And the agency realizes that the agency has been working hard to try to not be.

3766
01:20:33.680 --> 01:20:35.189
As much in the shadows,

3767
01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:35.660
right,

3768
01:20:35.879 --> 01:20:36.279
um,

3769
01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:38.660
because they Instagram account,

3770
01:20:39.160 --> 01:20:39.560
yeah,

3771
01:20:39.959 --> 01:20:41.319
they have Instagram accounts now,

3772
01:20:41.399 --> 01:20:42.580
they have Twitter accounts,

3773
01:20:42.770 --> 01:20:43.430
it's uh.

3774
01:20:44.220 --> 01:20:44.379
Yeah,

3775
01:20:44.459 --> 01:20:44.620
it's,

3776
01:20:44.660 --> 01:20:45.040
it's,

3777
01:20:45.220 --> 01:20:45.419
I,

3778
01:20:45.500 --> 01:20:46.740
I grew up and the,

3779
01:20:46.819 --> 01:20:48.919
the CIA was a shadowy

3780
01:20:49.649 --> 01:20:49.740
organization.

3781
01:20:49.859 --> 01:20:50.529
Now I,

3782
01:20:50.620 --> 01:20:51.930
I follow them on Instagram,

3783
01:20:52.100 --> 01:20:52.700
like it's,

3784
01:20:52.819 --> 01:20:53.750
it's a very,

3785
01:20:54.100 --> 01:20:55.270
it's a very different.

3786
01:20:56.290 --> 01:20:57.310
They're more accessible.

3787
01:20:58.250 --> 01:20:58.450
Yeah,

3788
01:20:58.549 --> 01:20:59.649
I mean they get to a degree,

3789
01:20:59.729 --> 01:21:00.240
you don't wanna,

3790
01:21:00.330 --> 01:21:00.700
you know,

3791
01:21:01.009 --> 01:21:02.120
you don't make too much of that,

3792
01:21:02.169 --> 01:21:02.439
that they,

3793
01:21:02.490 --> 01:21:02.609
you know,

3794
01:21:02.709 --> 01:21:05.370
there's always gonna be a firewall and sources and methods,

3795
01:21:05.410 --> 01:21:05.750
but,

3796
01:21:06.169 --> 01:21:06.640
um,

3797
01:21:06.770 --> 01:21:08.370
but they do understand it's a different world

3798
01:21:08.370 --> 01:21:11.189
and they do need to compete for employees

3799
01:21:11.450 --> 01:21:13.129
in a different environment,

3800
01:21:13.259 --> 01:21:13.589
right?

3801
01:21:13.689 --> 01:21:14.169
Um,

3802
01:21:14.250 --> 01:21:15.450
and so they have

3803
01:21:16.100 --> 01:21:16.359
They,

3804
01:21:16.419 --> 01:21:19.100
they have made those efforts to adjust,

3805
01:21:19.290 --> 01:21:19.939
um,

3806
01:21:20.379 --> 01:21:20.620
and you,

3807
01:21:20.700 --> 01:21:21.259
and like you said,

3808
01:21:21.299 --> 01:21:22.200
you see that in

3809
01:21:22.459 --> 01:21:23.000
some of their

3810
01:21:23.299 --> 01:21:26.490
social media campaigns which to this day I still find,

3811
01:21:26.580 --> 01:21:26.779
I mean,

3812
01:21:26.819 --> 01:21:29.479
I remember when I first saw the first print ad

3813
01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:31.259
for employment with the agency.

3814
01:21:31.500 --> 01:21:31.850
I was like,

3815
01:21:31.859 --> 01:21:33.069
what the fuck?

3816
01:21:33.620 --> 01:21:36.450
What are we doing here now we're publicizing in the newspaper,

3817
01:21:36.740 --> 01:21:36.899
you know,

3818
01:21:36.979 --> 01:21:37.979
that was a big deal.

3819
01:21:38.060 --> 01:21:38.299
I mean,

3820
01:21:38.419 --> 01:21:38.580
you know,

3821
01:21:38.819 --> 01:21:39.359
but

3822
01:21:39.740 --> 01:21:40.180
yeah,

3823
01:21:40.580 --> 01:21:40.859
you got,

3824
01:21:40.939 --> 01:21:41.209
you know,

3825
01:21:41.419 --> 01:21:42.100
times change,

3826
01:21:42.180 --> 01:21:42.540
like I said,

3827
01:21:42.620 --> 01:21:43.740
nothing stays the same.

3828
01:21:45.140 --> 01:21:45.779
Well,

3829
01:21:46.020 --> 01:21:48.000
I really appreciate your time

3830
01:21:48.379 --> 01:21:48.620
today.

3831
01:21:48.700 --> 01:21:49.220
I really,

3832
01:21:49.379 --> 01:21:49.700
I,

3833
01:21:49.819 --> 01:21:50.680
I enjoyed

3834
01:21:50.859 --> 01:21:51.879
these discussions,

3835
01:21:52.220 --> 01:21:53.520
and I feel

3836
01:21:55.020 --> 01:21:55.520
Like,

3837
01:21:55.540 --> 01:21:55.779
I,

3838
01:21:55.859 --> 01:21:56.479
I have a,

3839
01:21:56.660 --> 01:21:59.990
a slightly better understanding of a little bit of what's going on

3840
01:22:00.259 --> 01:22:00.600
now.

3841
01:22:00.859 --> 01:22:02.089
I slightly better

3842
01:22:02.600 --> 01:22:02.790
there's

3843
01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:04.330
when I got a little,

3844
01:22:04.600 --> 01:22:04.609
yeah,

3845
01:22:05.740 --> 01:22:06.259
because.

3846
01:22:07.209 --> 01:22:09.229
It's so much for me to try to take in.

3847
01:22:10.330 --> 01:22:10.490
No,

3848
01:22:10.609 --> 01:22:10.770
I,

3849
01:22:10.850 --> 01:22:11.129
it is,

3850
01:22:11.209 --> 01:22:11.450
it is,

3851
01:22:11.529 --> 01:22:12.100
there's a lot,

3852
01:22:12.169 --> 01:22:12.529
and you know,

3853
01:22:12.609 --> 01:22:15.049
people get overwhelmed and everybody's busy,

3854
01:22:15.649 --> 01:22:15.890
you know,

3855
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:17.229
feeding the family and,

3856
01:22:17.370 --> 01:22:17.569
you know,

3857
01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:19.149
maintaining a job and

3858
01:22:19.649 --> 01:22:20.720
just doing life.

3859
01:22:20.810 --> 01:22:21.970
It can be overwhelming,

3860
01:22:22.129 --> 01:22:22.520
right?

3861
01:22:22.569 --> 01:22:23.250
Um,

3862
01:22:23.649 --> 01:22:25.669
with everything that seems to be going on in the world,

3863
01:22:25.890 --> 01:22:26.370
you know,

3864
01:22:26.609 --> 01:22:27.229
I guess

3865
01:22:27.450 --> 01:22:27.970
if I had,

3866
01:22:28.049 --> 01:22:28.770
if I had.

3867
01:22:29.089 --> 01:22:29.290
You know,

3868
01:22:29.370 --> 01:22:29.850
the ability,

3869
01:22:29.890 --> 01:22:31.890
I just say everybody chill out a little bit on the,

3870
01:22:31.970 --> 01:22:33.169
on the politics,

3871
01:22:33.609 --> 01:22:35.399
take a breath from that,

3872
01:22:35.729 --> 01:22:36.129
right?

3873
01:22:36.250 --> 01:22:36.649
Um,

3874
01:22:36.890 --> 01:22:37.370
step back,

3875
01:22:37.450 --> 01:22:37.950
maybe,

3876
01:22:38.370 --> 01:22:38.850
maybe.

3877
01:22:40.089 --> 01:22:43.520
Spend less time in the trenches throwing hand grenades at the other side,

3878
01:22:43.859 --> 01:22:45.399
depending on whichever side you're on,

3879
01:22:45.859 --> 01:22:46.339
um,

3880
01:22:46.540 --> 01:22:47.049
and

3881
01:22:47.959 --> 01:22:48.200
You know,

3882
01:22:48.310 --> 01:22:51.509
and then spend time when you're reading about what's going on in the world,

3883
01:22:51.640 --> 01:22:53.399
spend a little time looking at

3884
01:22:53.720 --> 01:22:54.879
a variety of sources,

3885
01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:55.200
right?

3886
01:22:55.359 --> 01:22:55.870
Don't just,

3887
01:22:55.919 --> 01:22:56.520
don't get,

3888
01:22:57.000 --> 01:22:57.310
you know,

3889
01:22:57.439 --> 01:22:58.740
pigeonholed in one

3890
01:22:59.069 --> 01:23:00.299
source just because it

3891
01:23:00.509 --> 01:23:01.850
It reaffirms your own

3892
01:23:02.390 --> 01:23:02.750
opinion,

3893
01:23:02.899 --> 01:23:03.040
right?

3894
01:23:03.390 --> 01:23:05.310
Read things that make you uncomfortable or listen

3895
01:23:05.310 --> 01:23:07.049
to things that make you a little uncomfortable

3896
01:23:07.350 --> 01:23:07.459
and,

3897
01:23:07.520 --> 01:23:08.660
and be questioning,

3898
01:23:08.790 --> 01:23:09.029
you know,

3899
01:23:09.109 --> 01:23:10.330
the source of information.

3900
01:23:10.500 --> 01:23:11.180
That's the best thing.

3901
01:23:11.270 --> 01:23:12.410
Best line of defense

3902
01:23:12.629 --> 01:23:14.509
in today's world with disinformation,

3903
01:23:14.950 --> 01:23:16.009
misinformation,

3904
01:23:16.149 --> 01:23:17.740
AI and all the rest of it is,

3905
01:23:18.069 --> 01:23:18.629
is a,

3906
01:23:18.669 --> 01:23:19.270
a curious,

3907
01:23:19.310 --> 01:23:20.109
inquisitive and,

3908
01:23:20.189 --> 01:23:21.250
and somewhat cynical

3909
01:23:21.549 --> 01:23:22.189
audience.

3910
01:23:23.029 --> 01:23:23.649
So

3911
01:23:24.279 --> 01:23:24.589
But again,

3912
01:23:24.669 --> 01:23:25.950
that takes a little bit of time and,

3913
01:23:26.029 --> 01:23:26.529
and

3914
01:23:26.979 --> 01:23:28.509
it seems to be in short supply.

3915
01:23:29.299 --> 01:23:30.580
Where can people find you,

3916
01:23:30.660 --> 01:23:30.830
Mike,

3917
01:23:30.910 --> 01:23:32.209
if people want to.

3918
01:23:33.379 --> 01:23:34.990
Listen to the show and uh

3919
01:23:35.419 --> 01:23:35.859
and,

3920
01:23:36.020 --> 01:23:37.410
and follow you more closely.

3921
01:23:37.939 --> 01:23:38.979
Come on out to Idaho.

3922
01:23:39.180 --> 01:23:39.540
That's where

3923
01:23:40.950 --> 01:23:40.959
he

3924
01:23:41.339 --> 01:23:42.080
stop on by.

3925
01:23:42.649 --> 01:23:43.080
Uh,

3926
01:23:43.259 --> 01:23:43.339
no,

3927
01:23:43.459 --> 01:23:43.660
we've,

3928
01:23:43.669 --> 01:23:44.279
uh,

3929
01:23:44.339 --> 01:23:44.529
you know,

3930
01:23:44.569 --> 01:23:45.919
it's the President's Daily Brief.

3931
01:23:46.169 --> 01:23:46.990
Um,

3932
01:23:47.350 --> 01:23:49.020
I appreciate you letting me mention it.

3933
01:23:49.100 --> 01:23:49.430
It's,

3934
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:49.850
uh,

3935
01:23:50.109 --> 01:23:52.569
the PDB we do 20 minutes in the mornings,

3936
01:23:52.859 --> 01:23:54.339
10 minutes in the afternoon,

3937
01:23:54.700 --> 01:23:59.359
touch on 3 or 4 of the critical stories or key issues or crises happening in the world.

3938
01:23:59.819 --> 01:24:00.069
Uh,

3939
01:24:00.149 --> 01:24:02.450
we try not to tell you how to think about it,

3940
01:24:02.629 --> 01:24:03.709
so it's just,

3941
01:24:03.799 --> 01:24:04.549
here's the news,

3942
01:24:04.629 --> 01:24:05.430
here's what's happening,

3943
01:24:05.509 --> 01:24:07.270
you form your own opinions,

3944
01:24:07.750 --> 01:24:08.310
um,

3945
01:24:08.549 --> 01:24:09.220
and then,

3946
01:24:09.229 --> 01:24:09.669
uh,

3947
01:24:09.870 --> 01:24:10.069
yeah,

3948
01:24:10.189 --> 01:24:12.390
for all your intelligence and security needs,

3949
01:24:12.500 --> 01:24:13.660
it's Portman Square Group.

3950
01:24:13.759 --> 01:24:14.069
Look at that.

3951
01:24:14.109 --> 01:24:14.470
I got a,

3952
01:24:14.669 --> 01:24:16.250
I got a business plug in,

3953
01:24:16.549 --> 01:24:16.950
um,

3954
01:24:17.270 --> 01:24:18.450
getting better at this.

3955
01:24:18.990 --> 01:24:19.410
Perfect,

3956
01:24:19.549 --> 01:24:19.870
yeah.

3957
01:24:20.259 --> 01:24:20.470
Oh man,

3958
01:24:20.629 --> 01:24:21.089
great.